OMG another problem....
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@Darren123
What @EBC-150 says is ABSOLUTELY fact, not "mostly fact if you try to stay VCT" as @papa tiger submits. I hope you don't fall for the myth that "The oil thing changes with Livernois delete of the VCT system". @EBC-150 is right on that issue too. The Livernois system does _nothing_ that can mechanically or hydraulically result in improved long term reliability. It will stop / eliminate / forever prevent phaser 'noise' that can result from sagging oil pressure or weak phaser return spring or any symptoms that result from a loss of Bank 2 Bank cam sync (VCT solenoids etc.). But that comes with greater detriment than most realize.
I have monitored, logged, graphed and extensively studied the various sensors and OBDII PIDs associated with the VCT system. I can attest that the Cams are "RETARDED" to a varying degree a VERY HIGH percentage of the time during normal driving conditions. To put "VERY HIGH" into perspective - I will say it is around 85% to 95%. And the PCM varies the cam retard degrees "constantly" - just like it does timing advance - as throttle position or load conditions change. It is absolutely a shame to "LOCK" them at full advance and defeat the engines ability to perform that operational 'fine tuning'.
JMO.
Good luck. Hope yours turns out as successfully as mine did - with the good advice from members here.
What @EBC-150 says is ABSOLUTELY fact, not "mostly fact if you try to stay VCT" as @papa tiger submits. I hope you don't fall for the myth that "The oil thing changes with Livernois delete of the VCT system". @EBC-150 is right on that issue too. The Livernois system does _nothing_ that can mechanically or hydraulically result in improved long term reliability. It will stop / eliminate / forever prevent phaser 'noise' that can result from sagging oil pressure or weak phaser return spring or any symptoms that result from a loss of Bank 2 Bank cam sync (VCT solenoids etc.). But that comes with greater detriment than most realize.
I have monitored, logged, graphed and extensively studied the various sensors and OBDII PIDs associated with the VCT system. I can attest that the Cams are "RETARDED" to a varying degree a VERY HIGH percentage of the time during normal driving conditions. To put "VERY HIGH" into perspective - I will say it is around 85% to 95%. And the PCM varies the cam retard degrees "constantly" - just like it does timing advance - as throttle position or load conditions change. It is absolutely a shame to "LOCK" them at full advance and defeat the engines ability to perform that operational 'fine tuning'.
JMO.
Good luck. Hope yours turns out as successfully as mine did - with the good advice from members here.
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Well I am going back to shop soon and try get out oil pan, as I don't have an engine stand lift, so will have to remove suspension parts to get it out. Thanks for all the info and suggestions about my fix.
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You can support the frame and lower the axle some with a floor jack so as not to damage the vacuun hoses and just give enough room to get the pan out. Locking the phasors takes away the possible breaking of springs an clatter. It also removes the cam egr capabilities an the hp benefits over older engines with egr. The Livernoise tune then helps recover the lost hp and the oem tune also wouldnt work with locked phasors and will throw codes as the reason for the tune is also understood. Carefully clean the pan watching for pieces of bearings material in it. Those mean bad news for you an again a reman.
Last edited by papa tiger; Nov 12, 2016 at 11:44 AM.
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From: Berkshire, NY
On a side note, I wonder if anyone has done a long term study on the affects of a disabled VCT? The system is also the main reason why these motors don't have an EGR system. What about NOx emissions and states that require a 'sniffer' test? (just thinking out loud)
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From: Berkshire, NY
It's really not that difficult... Remove the cross-member, take the bolt out of the pass. side differential mount only, unbolt the sway bar and allow it swing out of the way, then remove the oil pan. You will need to pry and block the passenger side mount down a little. It will not just drop down on you. You can do it on jackstands, no lift, no problem.
Thread Starter
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You can support the frame and lower the axle some with a floor jack so as not to damage the vacuun hoses and just give enough room to get the pan out. Locking the phasors takes away the possible breaking of springs an clatter. It also removes the cam egr capabilities an the hp benefits over older engines with egr. The Livernoise tune then helps recover the lost hp and the oem tune also wouldnt work with locked phasors and will throw codes as the reason for the tune is also understood. Carefully clean the pan watching for pieces of bearings material in it. Those mean bad news for you an again a reman.
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Great info and yes I do oil changes lots and will do a m360 oil pump at same time. I know previous own neglected the service of truck as most of all I have fixed was do to no service and left dirty as he'll. I will go through lots while in it and order online. The dealer prices here are nuts. Thx
LightningRod
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: San Antonio Texas
@Darren123 one of the best "HOW TO posts" that I've ever ran across on removing the OIL PAN on a 4x4 is here:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-...-pan-pump.html
Reviewing it sure should make things go smoother than fighting through it the first time.
And yes, as @EBC-150 correctly noted, I am definitely not a fan of lockouts. I try to always provide some non-combative logical support for that opinion because the subject is about as controversial as our recent presidential election. Much of the controversy is about equally based on emotion instead of fact. But locking the Phasers in the full advanced position has ZERO mechanical effect on any other part of the system. Lockouts have ZERO effect on oil pressure, flow rate or oil availability to lifters, rollers, or other valve components in the head. They have ZERO effect on the characteristic lifter 'tick'. Contrary to proponents/advertising claims, they provide ZERO added longevity or serviceability of the engine. They DO NOT stop chain slap, chain or other component wear, slack from poor tensioner function, or broken chain guides. All those things result from other factors completely unrelated to the Phaser's 'axial' adjustments of the camshaft with respect to phaser's gear teeth.
What lockouts do is immediately and permanently 'STOP' phaser noise (ie the diesel knock, or 'clack') at low RPM. That 'symptom' is the result of something totally different from the Phasers themselves anyway. Thus, in my opinion, lockouts could best be said to MASK the problem instead of a FIX of the problem. If NOTHING else were done but lockouts, the only thing that would happen is the 'noise' would be gone. The noise is a 'symptom', not a 'ROOT CAUSE'. If the ROOT cause is excessive drag in cam bearings or roller/followers - or degraded oil pressure, preventing the phaser from returning and locking in base position, the problem has been 'masked' because the noise (symptom) would be gone. The engine would be destined to future (likely more catastrophic) failure.
I guess fortunately, when lockouts are installed - other components are replaced also, - many times including the oil pump, or one of the other parts constituting the root cause. So the result was to sacrifice the designed benefit of variable valve timing.
So, as in our presidential race, whatever the decision, I wish @Darren123 the best - and @papa tiger I intend no malice and respectfully welcome contra opinion.
http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-...-pan-pump.html
Reviewing it sure should make things go smoother than fighting through it the first time.
And yes, as @EBC-150 correctly noted, I am definitely not a fan of lockouts. I try to always provide some non-combative logical support for that opinion because the subject is about as controversial as our recent presidential election. Much of the controversy is about equally based on emotion instead of fact. But locking the Phasers in the full advanced position has ZERO mechanical effect on any other part of the system. Lockouts have ZERO effect on oil pressure, flow rate or oil availability to lifters, rollers, or other valve components in the head. They have ZERO effect on the characteristic lifter 'tick'. Contrary to proponents/advertising claims, they provide ZERO added longevity or serviceability of the engine. They DO NOT stop chain slap, chain or other component wear, slack from poor tensioner function, or broken chain guides. All those things result from other factors completely unrelated to the Phaser's 'axial' adjustments of the camshaft with respect to phaser's gear teeth.
What lockouts do is immediately and permanently 'STOP' phaser noise (ie the diesel knock, or 'clack') at low RPM. That 'symptom' is the result of something totally different from the Phasers themselves anyway. Thus, in my opinion, lockouts could best be said to MASK the problem instead of a FIX of the problem. If NOTHING else were done but lockouts, the only thing that would happen is the 'noise' would be gone. The noise is a 'symptom', not a 'ROOT CAUSE'. If the ROOT cause is excessive drag in cam bearings or roller/followers - or degraded oil pressure, preventing the phaser from returning and locking in base position, the problem has been 'masked' because the noise (symptom) would be gone. The engine would be destined to future (likely more catastrophic) failure.
I guess fortunately, when lockouts are installed - other components are replaced also, - many times including the oil pump, or one of the other parts constituting the root cause. So the result was to sacrifice the designed benefit of variable valve timing.
So, as in our presidential race, whatever the decision, I wish @Darren123 the best - and @papa tiger I intend no malice and respectfully welcome contra opinion.
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Yes I agree to the beficial effect vct has on engine emission and performance they are all I have owned since 2003. I am not there to observe the motor. Basically the Livernois tune takes the motor back before egr came into being when air pumps and what not with throttle body injection happened. Livernoise does perty much lead the way with EB performance also. They know what they are doing. Injector clicking or lifter noise has always been not such a distraction as the diesel clacking of broken phasor springs and oil psi problems. Livernois tune is what help the motor run well after the phasor is locked. Again all of this is immaterial if bearing material is in the pan and most all parts money is wasted. The op says the truck had practically 0 maintenance after all. If the motor had been well maintained I would go all in for VCT up grades. But.
Last edited by papa tiger; Nov 12, 2016 at 03:12 PM.
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Great write up. Well one good thing about doing job yourself , is the money you save and can spend on new tools you need. Lol
So I'm looking at different oil pumps that's high volume and do both melling m360 and the 10340 fit the 07 f150 5.4 4x4 if so what is better. Thx and heading in to drop pan now and will take pics of what I find. Thx
So I'm looking at different oil pumps that's high volume and do both melling m360 and the 10340 fit the 07 f150 5.4 4x4 if so what is better. Thx and heading in to drop pan now and will take pics of what I find. Thx