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Ummm, the NREL website is an excellent source for finding out facts about solar collectors. I'm not sure why anti-solar people would recommend it, but thank you anyway.
For example, here is a recent study the NREL just did. Notice the bottom 2 entries about costs for utility grade PV systems, including storage. See where that is going?
They are at the forefront of developing new renewable energy strategies . Browse their website to see what is really going on with solar and wind energy.
As for the guy that wanted to know the life span of a PV collector:
But remember this. In that 25 year span, the utilities did not spend a single penny for the energy that they are converting into electricity. Not a penny, unless someone figures out how to meter sunlight, and meter wind.
No money spent buying natural gas, no money spent buying coal, no money spent buying oil. And that is why the utilities are going into solar and wind, big time.
It is as if you just bought a new home backup generator, and included in the price is free fuel for 25 years. Is that a great deal?
First of all, I was the guy and I already knew the lifespan. Second of all, what you left out is that the panels deplete over time, they don't generate 100% for 25-30 years and then just stop. So 15 years in their efficiency can be as low as 50% as when new.
Further, those panels are all waste once depleted. Nothing is recyclable. So into the landfill they go.
One last thing. That "free"energy is lower on cloudy days....and zero at night. Which means in the winter the power generation is quite a bit lower. Factor in the depletion and over time the winter power generation is a fraction of new panels in the middle of summer.
Last edited by LoneWolfTrucker; Jun 8, 2021 at 09:38 PM.
For some reason that comment made me laugh envisioning a YT video that starts out “Here’s how I made a 5th wheel hitch for my Lightning for only $36 using 2x4s and pocket screws!”
I might need a custom installation, that’s okay. I’d never use 2x4s though that’s ridiculous. 2x6s minimum.
Last edited by Easycamper; Jun 8, 2021 at 10:41 PM.
I might need a custom installation, that’s okay. I’d never use 2x4s though that’s ridiculous. 2x6s minimum.
If I've learned anything from watching YouTube "carpentry" videos it's that anything can and should be made from 2x4's and pocket screws. And if that doesn't work, just slather some construction adhesive on there and you'll be fine.
I shouldn't trash talk YouTube too much since it essentially taught me enough carpentry, electrical, plumbing, and flooring to build a workshop up to code and pass all inspections, but there is some really crazy advice and it's sometimes hard to separate the "chaff from the wheat!"
Look at the numbers. EV and renewable fanboys: the numbers are pathetic, and there is no spinning that truth. Take a rest. Find a new hobby.
OK, let us look at the numbers. One competitor to solar and wind generation is nuclear power generation.
Let's see how they are competing, right from today's Wall Street Journal.
Hmmm, $27 billion, more than double initial estimates. For one powerplant. I wonder who is paying for that? Maybe their customers?
And that is why utilities are going to wind and solar, because you just can't beat the price of FREE energy.
Updated June 8, 2021 4:40 pm ETThe only nuclear-power plant under construction in the U.S. is facing delays and additional costs. Again.
Earlier this week, an engineering expert working for the Georgia Public Service Commission testified that the startup of the Alvin W. Vogtle Electric Generating Plant would likely be delayed until the summer of 2022 and could cost $2 billion more than expected.
Southern Co. SO 0.30% , the Atlanta-based utility building the nuclear-power plant, said it expects the first reactor to be completed during the first quarter of 2022. A spokesman for the company said its judgment was based on current information and that “risks remain on the project and it is possible that the cost estimate could increase in the future.”
Any delays after November 2021 would result in a reduction in the regulated profit that Southern subsidiary Georgia Power receives for building the nuclear reactor.
Vogtle has been beset by numerous delays and cost overruns. It was originally scheduled to open in 2016, and the total cost of the two planned Vogtle reactors tops $27 billion—more than double the initial estimates approved by state regulators in 2008. The problems finishing Vogtle have lessened enthusiasm for what was hailed a decade ago as a possible nuclear renaissance in the U.S. Today, the facility located near Augusta, Ga.,
Georgia almost gave up on the project amid cost overruns and delays. In 2017, state officials voted to continue building the reactors, but limited Southern’s future returns on the project if further postponements occurred. At the time, Southern promised that a new contractor would resolve construction delays. The utility later took a charge to its earnings and promised to have the first of two new reactors completed and generating electricity by November 2021.
“They will be late and they will pay a penalty,” said Tim Echols, vice chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission. “They were willing to negotiate then because they thought they would be on time. I think they are regretting it today.”
Over the past couple of years, work has progressed on the reactors. Southern is running what is known as a hot test to make sure everything is working properly at the plant before nuclear fuel is added.
In a filing Monday with the Georgia Public Service Commission, project monitor Donald Grace said he expects the plant’s startup to be pushed back “by roughly seven to nine months, or more.” Mr. Grace, the vice president of engineering at the Vogtle Monitoring Group, which was retained by the commission’s public-interest staff, also said the plant’s costs could increase by an estimated $2 billion.
He blamed Southern’s decision to accelerate testing of the unit before completion of most of the construction work. “This has then led to inefficient and costly execution of construction, piece-by-piece testing and retesting of partial systems and complete systems,” he testified. He also said some electrical work will require remediation.
In recent weeks, Southern Chairman and Chief Executive Thomas A. Fanning pushed back the plant’s scheduled start of generating electricity from November 2021 until early 2022. Last month, he said at the company’s annual shareholder meeting that testing of the equipment to ensure the plant was safe “may take a few weeks longer than our original plan.”
The total cost of the two planned Vogtle reactors exceeds $27 billion.
Photo: Michael Holahan/The Augusta Chronicle/Associated Press Cost overruns doomed the only other new U.S. nuclear-power plant begun this century. In 2017, Scana Corp. SCANA 0.48% scrapped plans to finish a half-built nuclear-power plant in South Carolina. When first proposed in 2008, the V.C. Summer Nuclear Station was expected to cost $11.5 billion. A minority owner of the plant, state-owned electric utility Santee Cooper, said cost estimates had ballooned to $25.7 billion.
The fallout from the decision to stop work on the nuclear station—which saddled South Carolina electric customers with large bills for a plant that will never generate power—turned into a political and financial controversy in the Palmetto State involving who should pay and who was responsible for decisions to move ahead with the project despite signs of trouble. Scana later agreed to a $137.5 million settlement to resolve civil-fraud charges related to the failed project, after the Securities and Exchange Commission accused the company and a subsidiary of defrauding investors by making false statements about the half-built plant. Scana lost support from the state’s political leaders, and in 2019 Dominion Energy Inc. D 0.91% acquired the company.
Despite generating carbon-free electricity, the nuclear-power industry has struggled in recent years. Competition from renewables and low-cost natural-gas-fired plants has lowered wholesale power prices and hurt the economics of existing plants. Several power plants have shut, most recently Entergy Corp.’s ETR 1.40% Indian Point Energy Center, north of New York City, which closed permanently in April.
The 2020 World Nuclear Industry Status Report, a widely cited independent industry analysis, said 408 reactors were operating last year world-wide, down from a peak of 438 in 2002. A small number of new reactors have started in recent years, in China, Russia, South Korea and the United Arab Emirates, according to the report.
Over the past decade, the cost of generating electricity from new nuclear-power plants has increased about 33% and the cost of new solar generation has fallen 90%, said Mycle Schneider, publisher of the report. “The scissors are opening wider and wider and I haven’t seen any sign anywhere that this is going to stop,” he said.
First of all, I was the guy and I already knew the lifespan. Second of all, what you left out is that the panels deplete over time, they don't generate 100% for 25-30 years and then just stop. So 15 years in their efficiency can be as low as 50% as when new.
And there they go again. Thanks again for that NREL link, LOL. Here is what they say.
Now seriously, should this be called out as a slight exaggeration, or should I fly the flag? Should we really just ignore such fantastically false information?
For most Tier 1 solar panels, the degradation rate is .30% meaning that each year, the panels performance is reduced by .30%. Over 25 years, that adds up to a total of 6.96% meaning your panels will operate at 93.04% of their original capacity in 2045.
If you invest in Tier 2 solar panels, your panels will degrade .50% each year and at the end of a 25-year warranty, they will operate at about 88.67% of their original capacity.
Unless your solar panels break, have manufacturing defects, or are damaged beyond repair, you can still expect excellent performance from Tier 2 solar panels after 25 years.
I looked for a "beating an electric dead horse" emoji but couldn't find one.
A REAL horse beater would NEVER beat an electric horse! Everyone knows that real men beat grass-powered horses and that Electric Horses only go to starbucks in Lululemon saddles something something city slickers something something big oil something something you're wrong and I'm right.
This thread turned into a wiener measuring contest about energy and is no longer about the Lightning
Wish the guys that want to debate the environment,fossil fuels,and going green would start a thread about that and not ruin a thread about a new truck coming out.
This thread turned into a wiener measuring contest about energy and is no longer about the Lightning
Wish the guys that want to debate the environment,fossil fuels,and going green would start a thread about that and not ruin a thread about a new truck coming out.
signing out of this one enjoy,
As an Electrical Technologist for 40 yrs, lets move on. We could debate this for a thousand years. Many good points on many sides, but future is unknown by all. Ford as made a remarkable marketing choice. I believe they will win in the end. No one is on their level of technology. They will crush the competition for sure. There is no utopia today, get over it. Future will come.
And there they go again. Thanks again for that NREL link, LOL. Here is what they say.
Now seriously, should this be called out as a slight exaggeration, or should I fly the flag? Should we really just ignore such fantastically false information?
Rofl...k, yeah they replace them even though they are 80% of peak efficiency! The NREL. Next you'll tell me F150s get 22MPG because Ford says so