Traitor
5 Year Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 9,098
Likes: 3,211
From: Kentucky
Honda got 123hp/liter out of a NATRUALLY ASPIRATED engine, Ford is using 2 turbochargers. Say what you want but getting that power out of an engine without forced induction, have a 8,900 rpm redline and the reliability of a Accord is impressive. Even 20 years later very few engines can match it's power output, including hypercars.
While the F20 and 22 were good engines, their 'impressive' hp figures were achieved by being built to rev. In 2000, Ford was putting a 2.0L 4-cyl into the Focus that was producing just 8% less torque, without VTC. But these aren't really comparable because the S2000 cost three times as much as the Focus. Hell, it cost more than a Mustang Cobra, which was a second faster in the 1/4. The Focus ZX3, which got VTC in 2002 or 2003, had 145lb-ft and cost, I think, 40% as much.
The S2000 isn't a holy grail vehicle that proves Honda is superior, it was a lot of money thrown at performance, which developed a motor than absolutely would not work for our trucks (making this an odd comparison). Right now, if Honda wanted to put a 2.7L in a full size truck, they'd have to use turbos to get the needed torque at a useable rpm. If they were to do a 2.7L like they did in the S2000, they'd have 3.3L performance at 3.5eco cost, and a truck that sucks for daily driving.
5 Year Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,263
Likes: 1,177
I take it you mean direct injection rather than fuel injection.
I think what you're missing about Fords is getting 148lb-ft/L of torque (2.7) is impressive in a vehicle priced for the masses and intended as a daily driver. It's even more impressive because it's done with hot turbo air and doesn't detonate.
While the F20 and 22 were good engines, their 'impressive' hp figures were achieved by being built to rev. In 2000, Ford was putting a 2.0L 4-cyl into the Focus that was producing just 8% less torque, without VTC. But these aren't really comparable because the S2000 cost three times as much as the Focus. Hell, it cost more than a Mustang Cobra, which was a second faster in the 1/4. The Focus ZX3, which got VTC in 2002 or 2003, had 145lb-ft and cost, I think, 40% as much.
The S2000 isn't a holy grail vehicle that proves Honda is superior, it was a lot of money thrown at performance, which developed a motor than absolutely would not work for our trucks (making this an odd comparison). Right now, if Honda wanted to put a 2.7L in a full size truck, they'd have to use turbos to get the needed torque at a useable rpm. If they were to do a 2.7L like they did in the S2000, they'd have 3.3L performance at 3.5eco cost, and a truck that sucks for daily driving.
I think what you're missing about Fords is getting 148lb-ft/L of torque (2.7) is impressive in a vehicle priced for the masses and intended as a daily driver. It's even more impressive because it's done with hot turbo air and doesn't detonate.
While the F20 and 22 were good engines, their 'impressive' hp figures were achieved by being built to rev. In 2000, Ford was putting a 2.0L 4-cyl into the Focus that was producing just 8% less torque, without VTC. But these aren't really comparable because the S2000 cost three times as much as the Focus. Hell, it cost more than a Mustang Cobra, which was a second faster in the 1/4. The Focus ZX3, which got VTC in 2002 or 2003, had 145lb-ft and cost, I think, 40% as much.
The S2000 isn't a holy grail vehicle that proves Honda is superior, it was a lot of money thrown at performance, which developed a motor than absolutely would not work for our trucks (making this an odd comparison). Right now, if Honda wanted to put a 2.7L in a full size truck, they'd have to use turbos to get the needed torque at a useable rpm. If they were to do a 2.7L like they did in the S2000, they'd have 3.3L performance at 3.5eco cost, and a truck that sucks for daily driving.
The Hammer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 487
Likes: 309
From: Peoria, AZ
Y'all are funny. You take it so personal when somebody jumps ship to Chevy, Dodge, or Toyota. Who really cares? If he wants to spend his money on a Ram truck, it's his money, it doesn't affect you in any way. Quit attacking folks because they think differently then you do. He's entitled to his opinion and allowed to spend his money on whatever he sits fit, even it he is misguided in most of our eyes. I know it's hard to believe, but some people have had real problems with their Ford truck. Every manufacturer makes something bad eventually, it doesn't mean the brand is bad. It also doesn't mean he's questioning your sanity. Let be.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 1,089
From: SC
Y'all are funny. You take it so personal when somebody jumps ship to Chevy, Dodge, or Toyota. Who really cares? If he wants to spend his money on a Ram truck, it's his money, it doesn't affect you in any way. Quit attacking folks because they think differently then you do. He's entitled to his opinion and allowed to spend his money on whatever he sits fit, even it he is misguided in most of our eyes. I know it's hard to believe, but some people have had real problems with their Ford truck. Every manufacturer makes something bad eventually, it doesn't mean the brand is bad. It also doesn't mean he's questioning your sanity. Let be.
USMC Veteran
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 317
Likes: 96
From: Florida
RAM has a decent interior, but couldn't pull the trigger on a FIAT. My 1st choice was Toyota, then Ford. I decided on the Ford bc of perfect balance of reliability vs capabilities. Toyota is real old school. FIAT's spend too much time in the shop, just try to find owners with 100k miles.
FORD lifer
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 256
From: The Quad Cities - relocated from Montana
Y'all are funny. You take it so personal when somebody jumps ship to Chevy, Dodge, or Toyota. Who really cares? If he wants to spend his money on a Ram truck, it's his money, it doesn't affect you in any way. Quit attacking folks because they think differently then you do. He's entitled to his opinion and allowed to spend his money on whatever he sits fit, even it he is misguided in most of our eyes. I know it's hard to believe, but some people have had real problems with their Ford truck. Every manufacturer makes something bad eventually, it doesn't mean the brand is bad. It also doesn't mean he's questioning your sanity. Let be.
Nothing to do with karate, Rachael Ray recipes, or FIATS.
