So, I've just replaced the engine on my 04 F150 Lariat with the engine from the 06 F150 (with 120k miles 0n it). I have done the timing job (replaced the chains, guides phasers, iron tentioners with OEM parts). When I start the engine, it runs very ruff and eventually dies. I've scanned it with my MaxiSys scanner (see picture below) and it complains about cam shaft positioning sensor. I tried swapping it, that didn't make any differents. When I unplug the sensor, it runs a little better but not the way it should. When I did the timing job, I've made sure that the timing was where it should be. Is it possible that it skipped the tooth? That's the only thing I can think of. Any suggestions, before I take it all a part again? Also, I know for sure that the cams are slightly different between 04 and 06. 04 cam has one cutout for the positioning sensor and 06 has two but I did swapped the ECU that came with the new engine and my old engine was running just fine and the new one runs ruff no metter which ECU is plugged in. Could it be that the cams are different and the ECU is thinking that something wrong?

 

You have the new metal ratcheting tensioners new oem everything else .
I would question my setup not a jumped time thing . That would hard to do with those tensioners .
But your codes are questioning the wiring to both banks cam sensors. I would look at the crankshaft sensor wiring also . They have to match in sync in order for this to work .
Check your plugs for corrosion etc. How was your tone ring condition on crankshaft .

 

Did you replace the VCT solenoids to the new updated OEM version? Did you drop the oil pan and clean it out? Were either of the guides broken?

 

Regrettably, I do not know of any available OBDII parameters that will conclusively tell us if the cam chain timing marks are 'ligned up' correctly. But DTC descriptions published for P0340 and P0345 (as well as P0344 and P0349) are worded STUPIDLY and horribly misleading. They almost always send troubleshooters off on a rabbit trail looking for cam sensor or wiring (circuit) problems. But for sure you have something common to both sides. (I do not think it is wiring).


In analyzing these 4 DTCs, it is important to note that CPS signal processing of cam positioning is not 'interrupt driven' in the PCM but rather the signal wire is 'polled' at the anticipated appropriate time. ie, when the phaser finger 'should' be passing the CPS sensor. That involves a time window - and if the phaser finger isn't there during that time window (during first few revolutions during starting = P0340 bank 1 or P0345 bank 2). After the engine is running the same condition is reported as P0344 or P0349.


Off a tooth on crank or phaser sprocket will definitely produce those codes.
I have NO knowledge of differences in cam shafts between O4 and 06. But I did note that 'Crankshafts' have a couple of different part numbers (which seems would HAVE to be different if camshafts are). On RockAuto they caution on both models to visually inspect for differences in crankshafts ???!


BUT - low oil pressure from broken guides plugging pickup screen could cause this also as BadFish523 suggested. If the phasers do not return to base position on shutdown, their fingers are NOT locked where they 'should' be on startup. After startup - oil pressure should build and push them to base timing. I note that you are not getting P0344 or P0349 (intermittently not detected while running), or P0021 or P0022 (over retarded while running).


The only way I know to verify cam chain timing without removing the front cover (A real PITA) is scope the CPS signals for synchronization with Crankshaft.


Good luck, and let us know the final outcome.

 

I thinkI found the problem, by looking at the pictures that I took when the engine was out and the front cover was off, I've noticed that the sprocket on the crank (the crank positioning ) doesn't have the "front"on it and as far as I remember, it should. I thing I've put that thing the wrong way. I'm going to pull the covers tonight and I will let you guys know.

BTW. I did replaced VCTs as well and guides were OK before the timing job.

I want to tank everyone for your help, outstanding people around here!





Here is the picture of me pulling the old engine if anyone interested.



Here is the picture of me pulling the old engine if anyone interested.

 

You are right if the timing cover went on just that way. I save the picture locally, blew it up and I can tell the fingers on the tone ring face the chains. I honestly did not think it would go on that way without rubbing chains. Almost amazing the CKP senses the teeth without being aligned directly over it. The electronic 'hall effect' must be inadequate at starting speed - but improve as the speed of the tone ring is up to idle RPM. ????? interesting.


BTW. The picture is _ALMOST_ good enough to tell the chains are timed right. At least they are the SAME on both cams. I can count SEVEN (7) links clockwise to the phaser timing mark on both phasers. I can count twenty-three links from phaser down to the other colored chain link. 23+7 (30) should position the colored link straddling the crank dot!!!! That would be correct - but we can't see crank dot.
When you get that tone ring off, count for EXACTLY 30 links from Crank Sprocket dot (not including the link 'straddling' the DOT) up TO and including the LAST LINK before the phaser timing mark --- BOTH WAYS, ON BOTH SIDES should be 30 links.


Many remove everything and restring chains because the timing marks do not align perfectly again for 122 crankshaft revolutions.

 

Ohh man!! This is a very valuable information, I will definitely double check the timing again but I'm 95% sure it was correct. I checked it like 3 times before I've pulled the pins on the tensioners and checked again after it was done. I think what happened was that I've put that sprocket on there so I don't loose it and didn't pay attention what side it was on and forgot to check before I put the cover on.

 

Just found another picture on my phone without the sprocket. From what I can see, timing looks OK to me.

 

Uh-Oh, my friend - that engine is NOT correctly timed on Bank 1.


GREAT PHOTO BTW.


But - By blowing that picture up, I can count a total of 60 links on that chain (which meaning there is ONLY one obscured by the end of the Crankshaft), for a total of 61 links. That is how many the chain has total. You _MUST_ have exactly 30 links between the crank sprocket "DOT" and the timing mark on the Phaser - IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, ON BOTH BANKS. That right bank has 29 links visible in one direction, and 31 links visible the other direction. It is off by one tooth on the Phaser.


It appears the engine is a 'FEW' degrees (maybe 2-3) clockwise past 11:00 on the crank keyway and 6:00 o'clock on the crank "dot", but I believe the chain link that cannot be 'seen' is the one straddling the crank 'dot'. You do not count "THAT LINK" it when counting either direction for proper chain timing (irrespective of location of colored links).


I can NOT get a decent count on Bank 2 - but from earlier post - I believe they are timed the same based on the number of links 'PAST' the timing marks that the colored link are sitting. (same number past on both phasers)


Somebody please tell me I am wrong.

 

The BIG question (from the photos only) is where is that damn DOT?. If it is over the link obscured by the end of the crankshaft - and I am properly counting links behind things on Bank 2 - I get 29 one direction and 31 the other direction on it too.


Only good thing I can find here is the F/C has to come off to flip the tone ring over - and it can be double checked.