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Towing with previous generations?

Old 07-12-2018, 03:28 AM
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Off topic, but i have observed that people complain about towing with the 5.0. It makes me wonder how people towed back then. Even the recent 5.4 produced less torque at almost the same rpm while producing less hp with 2 to 6 less gears. I mean how did people tow back them. We have been spoiled. Granted, i never tow anything close to my truck's limit but i read complaints.

Sometimes i wonder if some of you have driven the 5.4 2v and 3v? Amd those engines where in the super duties as well.
we are really spoiled .

Just an observation
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:35 AM
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Yeah some people just like to complain I guess.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:40 AM
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I have towed heavy with nearly every type of Ford engine and truck from the mid 80s to today and even a few 70s models. We towed a 8k trailer, max load behind a 1998 Expedition, from Ohio all the way to Maine, the truck was so full it only had room for a driver and passenger, and a gym bag of clothes each. Pulled the load at 70mph all the time, no problems, but hills it revved up good and showed 0.0 mpg on the instant fuel economy. It was a 235hp version of the 5.4 2v.

My 5.0 2013 was a beast pulling my 8 to 10k Gn. All these trucks will get the job done, we just to remember that we did it with far less power and torque for many years
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:49 AM
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I have previously commented, or complained as the case may be, about towing with my prior 2000 5.4L (2V) versus my current 2018 5.0L. Not sure what OP is referring to regarding torque. 2000 5.4L rated for 350 pound-feet at 2500 RPM while 2018 5.0L rated at 400 pound-feet at 4500 RPM. (If the EcoBoost is hyped as such a great tow beast, why does it start making max torque in the lower RPM range?) With the 4 speed trans in the 2000 it needed the low end grunt though. Nonetheless, I am currently doing chassis mods to try to make my 2018 as good of an overall tow vehicle for my ~6000# boat/trailer as the 2000 was. It is not the drivetrain where my problem lies.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by doyall View Post
I have previously commented, or complained as the case may be, about towing with my prior 2000 5.4L (2V) versus my current 2018 5.0L. Not sure what OP is referring to regarding torque. 2000 5.4L rated for 350 pound-feet at 2500 RPM while 2018 5.0L rated at 400 pound-feet at 4500 RPM. (If the EcoBoost is hyped as such a great tow beast, why does it start making max torque in the lower RPM range?) With the 4 speed trans in the 2000 it needed the low end grunt though. Nonetheless, I am currently doing chassis mods to try to make my 2018 as good of an overall tow vehicle for my ~6000# boat/trailer as the 2000 was. It is not the drivetrain where my problem lies.
Uhh because low RPM torque is exactly what you want for towing?
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff1024 View Post
Uhh because low RPM torque is exactly what you want for towing?
​​​​​​^^this
Lol
I'm a fan of both engines, but if you haven't towed with an ecoboost you honestly don't know what you're missing.

For the record I've owned two ecoboost trucks now and I am considering buying a 2019 5.0 next year, as I said I like both engines
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by doyall View Post
I have previously commented, or complained as the case may be, about towing with my prior 2000 5.4L (2V) versus my current 2018 5.0L. Not sure what OP is referring to regarding torque. 2000 5.4L rated for 350 pound-feet at 2500 RPM while 2018 5.0L rated at 400 pound-feet at 4500 RPM. (If the EcoBoost is hyped as such a great tow beast, why does it start making max torque in the lower RPM range?) With the 4 speed trans in the 2000 it needed the low end grunt though. Nonetheless, I am currently doing chassis mods to try to make my 2018 as good of an overall tow vehicle for my ~6000# boat/trailer as the 2000 was. It is not the drivetrain where my problem lies.
It may be 400 ft-lbs at 4500rpm but that doesnt mean its not 399 ft-lbs at 2500. I've yet to see a torque curve for the 5.0 but I do know that the GM Ecotec V8's make something like 80% of their peak torque at 2000 rpm while the peak is at 4100. This means a 460 ft-lb 6.2 Ecotec is making ~380 at 2000 rpm and 400 at 2500.

You take the same numbers and the 5.0 would be around 340 at 2500 which is damn close.

How well your truck maintains speed is really about HP though. The 5.0 has a big HP advantage over the 5.4 which is what really makes it feel better. The low end torque(which is really like saying low end HP) is about comfort and convenience. My ecoboost will tow my travel trailer at 70mph in 6th gear up 2% grades. Thats at 6500+' above sea level where a 5.0 would be down 20% on power.


Originally Posted by Sirikenewtron View Post
​​​​​​^^this
Lol
I'm a fan of both engines, but if you haven't towed with an ecoboost you honestly don't know what you're missing.

For the record I've owned two ecoboost trucks now and I am considering buying a 2019 5.0 next year, as I said I like both engines
The 2018+ 5.0 is intriguing for sure. Depending on whether I still live at altitude on my next go around, the 5.0 will be in consideration.

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.Bro View Post
Off topic, but i have observed that people complain about towing with the 5.0. It makes me wonder how people towed back then. Even the recent 5.4 produced less torque at almost the same rpm while producing less hp with 2 to 6 less gears. I mean how did people tow back them. We have been spoiled. Granted, i never tow anything close to my truck's limit but i read complaints.

Sometimes i wonder if some of you have driven the 5.4 2v and 3v? Amd those engines where in the super duties as well.
we are really spoiled .

Just an observation
I've never driven them, but I used to tow ~4000 lbs of ATV's with a 4.3L V6 Chevy Astro Van. 200hp and 260 ft-lbs at 2800 rpm so very similar type of power curve. The engine actually towed quite well and would hold 4th gear on flats but suffered on the big grades. The trans tuning kinda sucked because it would kick the trans down too early which sent the RPM's too high. Peak HP was only at 4400 rpm so 2 down shifts and it fell off the power cliff. It was actually best to feather the throttle and try to keep the RPM's lower and more in the torque band.

That said, towing my current travel trailer with that thing would have SUCKED. its only 5000 lbs but its the wind resistance thats bad. The ecoboost needs a good portion of its torque to drag that trailer at 65mph, the Astro would have been screaming for mercy. This is exactly why diesel trucks have such a following, but in the 90's and early 2000's the gas engines sucked. The thing is the diesel folks havent caught up with the times are realized the modern gas motors are quite good now.

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:14 PM
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On an interesting side note, my engine monitor system has a torque at the transmission shaft PID. Its fun to watch even on the 6.7 diesel. We all get hung up on an engine making XXXlbs of torque at a given RPM, but they only do that at WOT pulling against a load. Part throttle cruising numbers are way down from that. For instance my peak number per the book is supposed to be 860 at 1600 rpms. It will at WOT pass that by almost 100lbft per the computer and maintain over that up to say 3k, then it tails off. At part throttle 1600 to 2500 rpm, it can show as low as 375 to mid 400s, start pulling a hill, turbos spool, and throttle applies on cruise control and you can watch it build torque on the monitor.

Also something to keep in mind is that HP is a function of torque, so the reason the 5.0 pulls so strong on the highway is that its torque band is maybe not as high as the eco at its peak, but is a gradual steady building broad curve. When I had my 5.0, it always pulled very strong on the highway and the truck and trailer combo was perfect even at 8k or more loaded. It always maintained speed very well at 2500 to 3500 rpms in either 5th or 4th gear, depending on the grade. The old 5.4 was bottom end based and fell on its nose as the rpm built, the 5.0 pulls strong all the way up.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.0GN tow View Post
On an interesting side note, my engine monitor system has a torque at the transmission shaft PID. Its fun to watch even on the 6.7 diesel. We all get hung up on an engine making XXXlbs of torque at a given RPM, but they only do that at WOT pulling against a load. Part throttle cruising numbers are way down from that. For instance my peak number per the book is supposed to be 860 at 1600 rpms. It will at WOT pass that by almost 100lbft per the computer and maintain over that up to say 3k, then it tails off.
That's pretty awesome, I would watch that all day and most likely drive my truck into a wall due to being so distracted lol.

Sure you have thought of this, but the "extra" 100lbft you are seeing at the transmission shaft are most likely because the [email protected] RPM book figure is measured at the wheels. 10 - 11% drive train loss isn't bad at all.
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