2024 Refresh
5 Year Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 467
From: Minnesota
The Chevy and Ram marketing is pretty much writing itself.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 8,731
Likes: 4,800
I really don't understand what Ford is doing. The 3.3 may not have been popular with consumers but it was with fleets and Ford is #1 in fleets. How many fleet managers want turbos? My guess is not many.
The new tailgate is the worst of the dual openers. It doesn't open fully across and being split in two places means it's probably the heaviest.
I'm not surprised so many here can't seem to option a new one like they want. That's what happens when you reduce configurations by a whopping 90%. That means 90% of those who previously got exactly what they wanted will either be paying for stuff they don't want or going without what they do want.
This design is also very long in the tooth. The overall slab-sided boxy design language dates back 20 years, this version of it to 2015. Looks are subjective of course, but to my eyes this is easily the most conservative and dated looking pickup in the market. Slapping on new lights and bigger screens doesn't change that and I'd argue makes for a less cohesive look.
What I haven't seen is whether or not you can finally get 4A in an XLT. That's another area Ford has been lagging for years. I won't buy another pickup without that, there is simply no reason to.
No tow package with the 2.7 is downright asinine. The 2.7 is easily what I like best about my current truck. No other manufacturer can match its combination of economy and power. No tow package is no deal.
Ford's quality has been crap for a while now, even the executives have admitted that, so that isn't going to sell trucks. Even if they have improved it it will take several years before anybody really knows and several more years after that for the reputation to change.
If Ford is going to maintain the #1 sales position, they are going to have to do it with deep incentives IMO.
I already had little interest in a new full size truck with today's prices. This doesn't change that. My kids will start leaving the house in less than 2 years. I'll probably either downsize or run my '18 into the ground. Unless the market changes it will be my last full size and likely my last Ford.
The new tailgate is the worst of the dual openers. It doesn't open fully across and being split in two places means it's probably the heaviest.
I'm not surprised so many here can't seem to option a new one like they want. That's what happens when you reduce configurations by a whopping 90%. That means 90% of those who previously got exactly what they wanted will either be paying for stuff they don't want or going without what they do want.
This design is also very long in the tooth. The overall slab-sided boxy design language dates back 20 years, this version of it to 2015. Looks are subjective of course, but to my eyes this is easily the most conservative and dated looking pickup in the market. Slapping on new lights and bigger screens doesn't change that and I'd argue makes for a less cohesive look.
What I haven't seen is whether or not you can finally get 4A in an XLT. That's another area Ford has been lagging for years. I won't buy another pickup without that, there is simply no reason to.
No tow package with the 2.7 is downright asinine. The 2.7 is easily what I like best about my current truck. No other manufacturer can match its combination of economy and power. No tow package is no deal.
Ford's quality has been crap for a while now, even the executives have admitted that, so that isn't going to sell trucks. Even if they have improved it it will take several years before anybody really knows and several more years after that for the reputation to change.
If Ford is going to maintain the #1 sales position, they are going to have to do it with deep incentives IMO.
I already had little interest in a new full size truck with today's prices. This doesn't change that. My kids will start leaving the house in less than 2 years. I'll probably either downsize or run my '18 into the ground. Unless the market changes it will be my last full size and likely my last Ford.
The 2.7 is too fantastic of an engine not to put into more trucks
Your last sentence about "the market" is the main point. It's not a Ford thing, it's a thing-thing.
Some people didn't realize that, in the recent past, F150 allowed so much more configuration and customization than most...with the forced shutdowns and chip shortages and supply chain stuff...going closer to the market/industry in terms of few customization options was a foregone conclusion.
And full size truck prices are not going up, the dollar is going down...it's inflation because elections and politics have consequences
Take any similarly equipped truck from the last gen and do an inflation adjuster of its price back then to 2023 dollars and it will almost perfectly match new purchase prices
Last edited by blkZ28spt; Sep 13, 2023 at 11:10 AM.
5 Year Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 467
From: Minnesota
There's lots and lots of threads about turbo issues. They can and do fail just like any other part. They don't necessarily make for an unreliable truck, but they do introduce more points of failure. Add in the way fleet drivers tend to beat on vehicles and the extra cost up front and it shouldn't be hard to see why fleets tend to stay away from them unless they really need them, like in a heavy duty diesel. You're not totally wrong, unfair perception does play a role as well. But you can't deny that that perception, valid or not, will result in lost sales. I see it in pretty much every single comment section of videos or stories about EcoBoosts.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 8,731
Likes: 4,800
There's lots and lots of threads about turbo issues. They can and do fail just like any other part. They don't necessarily make for an unreliable truck, but they do introduce more points of failure. Add in the way fleet drivers tend to beat on vehicles and the extra cost up front and it shouldn't be hard to see why fleets tend to stay away from them unless they really need them, like in a heavy duty diesel. You're not totally wrong, unfair perception does play a role as well. But you can't deny that that perception, valid or not, will result in lost sales. I see it in pretty much every single comment section of videos or stories about EcoBoosts.
There are lots and lots of threads about people who think their more moving parts more complexity less reliable V8 is better because it has the magic number 8 in it and everybody knows diesel engines are in the shop every other day because those damn turbos with like 1 moving part are so complicated
Don't worry, fleets are going to be just fine running the 2.7.
You know what else people said in every single comment section? They were going to break the beer can construction truck bed what is Ford thinking building from aluminum it's weak.
Just sit back, chill out on the ridiculousness of thinking turbos are a problem, and we'll all laugh at this post in 5 and 10 years. I promise
5 Year Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 467
From: Minnesota
There are not lots and lots of threads about 2.7 turbo issues.
There are lots and lots of threads about people who think their more moving parts more complexity less reliable V8 is better because it has the magic number 8 in it and everybody knows diesel engines are in the shop every other day because those damn turbos with like 1 moving part are so complicated
Don't worry, fleets are going to be just fine running the 2.7.
You know what else people said in every single comment section? They were going to break the beer can construction truck bed what is Ford thinking building from aluminum it's weak.
Just sit back, chill out on the ridiculousness of thinking turbos are a problem, and we'll all laugh at this post in 5 and 10 years. I promise
There are lots and lots of threads about people who think their more moving parts more complexity less reliable V8 is better because it has the magic number 8 in it and everybody knows diesel engines are in the shop every other day because those damn turbos with like 1 moving part are so complicated
Don't worry, fleets are going to be just fine running the 2.7.
You know what else people said in every single comment section? They were going to break the beer can construction truck bed what is Ford thinking building from aluminum it's weak.
Just sit back, chill out on the ridiculousness of thinking turbos are a problem, and we'll all laugh at this post in 5 and 10 years. I promise
I don't think sales are going to collapse, but I would not be surprised at all if the Silverado surpasses the F-150 in sales. With 90% fewer configurations Ford is removing many of the objective reasons to choose an F-150 and leaving it mostly up to subjective personal preferences.
They are still going to sell hundreds of thousands of them. They don't appeal much to me anymore, but I'm sure they still will to a lot of people.
Last edited by bisonp; Sep 13, 2023 at 11:45 AM.
You're twisting my words. I like my turbo and stated I don't think it necessarily makes for an unreliable truck. The 5.0 has had major issues just like the POS 5.4 before it but we are talking about the 3.3 here. Fleets already had the option of the 2.7 but from what I can tell rarely bought it.
If GM wants to surpass Ford in fleet sales then they need to increase their supply. Their allocation to fleet for 1/2 ton trucks over the past few years has been abysmal. In my network we buy 5,000 1/2 ton trucks per year. GM has been allocating 5 to our entire group for the past few years. 5
5 Year Member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 467
From: Minnesota
Fleets are already fine running the 2.7 and 3.5. I run a fleet of over 150 1/2 ton trucks, and we have been buying the 3.5 since they came out, and all of the other fleet managers I know do the same. We have gone through nearly 1,000 ecoboosts since they came out and have had less than 5 turbo issues. I literally dont know any fleet managers who purchased the 3.3.
If GM wants to surpass Ford in fleet sales then they need to increase their supply. Their allocation to fleet for 1/2 ton trucks over the past few years has been abysmal. In my network we buy 5,000 1/2 ton trucks per year. GM has been allocating 5 to our entire group for the past few years. 5
If GM wants to surpass Ford in fleet sales then they need to increase their supply. Their allocation to fleet for 1/2 ton trucks over the past few years has been abysmal. In my network we buy 5,000 1/2 ton trucks per year. GM has been allocating 5 to our entire group for the past few years. 5
Back in 2017 figures I can find stated the 5.0 was 25% of sales and the 3.3 was 10%
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 262
Likes: 127
I'm holding out hope this is a one-time fee, so they can get the cameras on more trucks, and convince people it's worth it where users normally wouldn't option it before. Fewer part configurations, but not giving away anything for free.
But they will incur the cost of the cameras regardless, and with their subscription ambitions I fear this will not be a one time fee thing. Hope I am wrong and we can get more clarity from Ford in the coming days.