2022 Engineering blunders.
has left the building
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 9,647
Likes: 3,421
Exactly what I encounter everyday in my job. And what I speculate Ford Engineers run up against as well. I will add that amount of software staff/resources is always the limiting factor in getting anything done on time and thus you only get AB instead of ABC. I won't belabor this more, but it's real and get worse as systems get more complex.
I have sympathy if your new F-150 doesn't charge the battery enough and you're upset about it. Seems like a huge miss on Ford's part. But, see above.
One way I know that I can attempt to mitigate this issue myself is to change that battery charge to percentage using Forscan. From factory it's 80%. I changed mine to 90%. With negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit temps here end of the week, I am bumping it to 95+%. You can do the same and I assume if you don't drive a lot now and have issues, bumping the % up from 80 might help.
I know the next response will be, "I shouldn't have to..." and I agree. But look at your options. Dealer and Ford options are weeks if not months out for a fix. Get a OBDII cable, Forscan software and advanced license, and up the charge threshold. Take satisfaction in fixing yourself.
I have been trying to think of an analogy for this. Best I can come up with is this. 20+ years ago you could swap in an alternator from a heavy duty application (1 ton) and get better charging. But that alternator was dumb (basic on/off control). Today Forscan is that swap. Your only option is to tweak software settings to get higher charge rate. OEM software controls everything and as you are experiencing, it's not great. So I choose to find a way to adjust it to suit my application. You may choose to not do that. But your missing out on a simple DIY solution to this problem. Good luck getting help from your dealer of Ford in a timely fashion.
I have sympathy if your new F-150 doesn't charge the battery enough and you're upset about it. Seems like a huge miss on Ford's part. But, see above.
One way I know that I can attempt to mitigate this issue myself is to change that battery charge to percentage using Forscan. From factory it's 80%. I changed mine to 90%. With negative 10 degrees Fahrenheit temps here end of the week, I am bumping it to 95+%. You can do the same and I assume if you don't drive a lot now and have issues, bumping the % up from 80 might help.
I know the next response will be, "I shouldn't have to..." and I agree. But look at your options. Dealer and Ford options are weeks if not months out for a fix. Get a OBDII cable, Forscan software and advanced license, and up the charge threshold. Take satisfaction in fixing yourself.
I have been trying to think of an analogy for this. Best I can come up with is this. 20+ years ago you could swap in an alternator from a heavy duty application (1 ton) and get better charging. But that alternator was dumb (basic on/off control). Today Forscan is that swap. Your only option is to tweak software settings to get higher charge rate. OEM software controls everything and as you are experiencing, it's not great. So I choose to find a way to adjust it to suit my application. You may choose to not do that. But your missing out on a simple DIY solution to this problem. Good luck getting help from your dealer of Ford in a timely fashion.
New members may not be aware but many other users here should know better.
Alternately to what you mention about FORScan, a person can simply bypass the BMS system altogether. Right, they shouldn't have to.
However they also don't have to buy a fully loaded luxury truck and complain that Ford didn't cater one thing to them which is allowing the truck to remained parked for a few days.
I drove about 6 thousand miles in 2 years with my 2016 (in 20/21) and never had a no-start situation. I live in a warmer climate.
My mother on the other hand, driving a Focus in Michigan was greeted with a low battery 2x last winter. She never goes anywhere but she'd remote start it a few times in a week. Then have to manually start it with a few remote starts and no open door or whatever the reset is. I told her she's probably hurting it by doing that as it won't charge the battery the amount it was drained.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 680
Likes: 446
From: Missouri
People love to hate engineers, but without them, we wouldn't nearly as much cool technology as we have today (in every aspect of life, not just cars). People forget that engineers aren't perfect, but more importantly, engineers usually don't have the final say in anything, ESPECIALLY when it comes to cost.
I can't count the number of times I've had a conversation that goes something like this:
me: hey this is the solution I have.
bean counters: this costs too much, how can we bring down the cost?
me: well we have ABC and XYZ, for full functionality we need ABC and X
bean counter: can we get away with just A
me: absolutely not, best I can do is ABC
bean counter: you have the funding for AB make it work
me: with only AB it will likely malfunction and be an inferior product we need at least AB and half of C, but it could still have issues
bean counter: fine, you can have AB and half of C
customer: WTF were the engineers thinking when they built it this was?
I can't count the number of times I've had a conversation that goes something like this:
me: hey this is the solution I have.
bean counters: this costs too much, how can we bring down the cost?
me: well we have ABC and XYZ, for full functionality we need ABC and X
bean counter: can we get away with just A
me: absolutely not, best I can do is ABC
bean counter: you have the funding for AB make it work
me: with only AB it will likely malfunction and be an inferior product we need at least AB and half of C, but it could still have issues
bean counter: fine, you can have AB and half of C
customer: WTF were the engineers thinking when they built it this was?
Enter Sales/Marketing: hey that AB and half of C is pretty cool. But if we had G that would be awesome.
Me: but G doesn't work with B and will neuter A if it's implemented.
Sales/Marketing: But G is so cool I'm sure we'll increase sales if we put it in the marketing.
Upper management: make G happen.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 268
Likes: 155
From: KY
I love all of these add ons to the analogy, as they’re all 100% accurate.
it’s really easy to hate the engineers, in fact I think we’re the most common scapegoat of any company and frankly It doesn’t even bother me anymore. But the reality is our hands are often tied.
if engineers were in charge, there would be much fewer issues, BUT the trucks would also be double the cost lol.
it’s really easy to hate the engineers, in fact I think we’re the most common scapegoat of any company and frankly It doesn’t even bother me anymore. But the reality is our hands are often tied.
if engineers were in charge, there would be much fewer issues, BUT the trucks would also be double the cost lol.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 157
Likes: 84
I don’t think it casts much light to try to arbitrate here on the forum if the fault lies with engineering, marketing, the bean counters or management.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
Gearhead
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,763
Likes: 782
From: Metro Detroit - missin FL
All you need to do is look at any manufacturer's accessory catalogs.... Jump packs and battery maintainers. Were they in catalogs 15 years ago. Pretty sure they weren't. They weren't needed back then. A battery on/off switch would be a simple fix but that would kill all of the transmission learning and all other things like presets, alarms, etc. Basically reseting everything. My truck doesn't even have an alternator.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 599
Likes: 348
I don’t think it casts much light to try to arbitrate here on the forum if the fault lies with engineering, marketing, the bean counters or management.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
Last edited by ttnuagmada; Dec 20, 2022 at 07:42 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,223
Likes: 386
This is the point I've tried to make in this thread and others: Many posters on this forum seem to think that because there are 3rd party solutions for dealing with it, or they have some sort of insight into the bureaucracy behind the poor decision making that leads to these issues, that it should be excused for some reason? The bottom line is that there are Sierras, Silverados, Rams, Titans, Tundras and 100 different other types of non-Ford vehicles that aren't having these types of problems.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 268
Likes: 155
From: KY
I don’t think it casts much light to try to arbitrate here on the forum if the fault lies with engineering, marketing, the bean counters or management.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
in my view, Ford has produced a product which includes a design flaw. That’s the whole story.
I can figure out how to adapt … most of us can, whether it’s buying a charger, driving more, or remote starting the engine periodically. Frankly I think it’s kind of silly that we have to do so, and it doesn’t change the fact that Ford’s reputation is diminished in my eyes.
Clearly, Ford has made its decision as to how many customers it projects it might lose because of this versus the cost of acknowledging the problem and dealing with it. My guess is that there’s ALOT more internal discussion about the failing OTA system then there is about dead and dying batteries. And I do not fault Ford for the decision it’s evidently made. Now it’s up to each of us, as consumers, to make our own decision about how we respond. Does it reduce my satisfaction to the point that I want to sell my truck and swear off of Ford products for life? For me, the answer is no, even though some folks on this forum are doing just that. I find that the attractive features of the truck on balance outweigh my outrage over what appears to be a poorly designed electrical system. Each of us will make his or her own decisions going forward.
And by the way, I am an engineer (now retired), so I am exquisitely well-versed in the trade offs, and the discussions that likely went on inside Ford, and may even be going on today.
This is the point I've tried to make in this thread and others: Many posters on this forum seem to think that because there are 3rd party solutions for dealing with it, or they have some sort of insight into the bureaucracy behind the poor decision making that leads to these issues, that it should be excused for some reason, or even go as far as to suggest that driving habits that have been fine in other vehicles for decades are now the problem? The bottom line is that there are Sierras, Silverados, Rams, Titans, Tundras and 100 different other types of non-Ford vehicles that aren't having these types of issues. Ford is the problem.
I think it is pretty clear at this point that there are failures at multiple levels when it comes to certain issues. It does get very tiresome to see some people have the entire lives focused on the issues with their vehicles. Many of the issues posted on here are slightly more than trivial in the grand scheme of life. I just with people had better perspective. Most of these are first world problems. All of us still have a roof over our head and food on our table. If you don't, you probably shouldn't be complaining about your truck on a forum.
ALSO, I get really tired of hearing "these new vehicles are impossible to work on with all of the technology" and then someone responds with "here is how you fix (insert issue here). It really is this simple" and the reply is "bUt I sHoUlDn'T hAvE tO". You don't get to play whichever side is convenient for you at the time. I know this one is going to get some people on here going, but I'm just calling it how I see it.
Are there SOME legitimate issues with these vehicles? Absolutely (B&O unleashed speakers making loud noises, sheared axle bolts, etc), but hearing how Ford failed us due to things like removing ambient lighting or you have a slightly rusty differential/axle housing... come on. Stuff like that sucks, but it's not REALLY an issue.
No fart cans allowed
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,339
Likes: 2,362
From: MO
Are there SOME legitimate issues with these vehicles? Absolutely (B&O unleashed speakers making loud noises, sheared axle bolts, etc), but hearing how Ford failed us due to things like removing ambient lighting or you have a slightly rusty differential/axle housing... come on. Stuff like that sucks, but it's not REALLY an issue.
