Not very happy with this '17 XLT
08-25-2017, 10:04 AM
#41
have you rotated tires to see if it helps or hurts? I know the dealer should make it right, but most of the time they just don't care and want it good enough. most techs won't do anything unless they're getting paid and want to turn easy big hour jobs or they have the FNG working on it. who should probably only be checking tire pressure with supervision.
have you thought about taking it to a good body shop in your area? not a hang and paint or a big production place, an actual body shop. find an old crusty guy, hard to deal with, that does restoration and see what they think. some of the panels might need a little tweaking or it could just be some aligning.
luckily my truck is straight, only noticed some light paint coverage on the inside of the bed / gate. I planned on getting line-x so it didn't really concern me. with the cost of these things I don't blame your concern / displeasure one bit, they should be straight and true.
luckily my truck is straight, only noticed some light paint coverage on the inside of the bed / gate. I planned on getting line-x so it didn't really concern me. with the cost of these things I don't blame your concern / displeasure one bit, they should be straight and true.
08-25-2017, 10:16 AM
#42
+1. I just take it for what it is knowing that the truck is
1.) Safe! Highest crash ratings of all trucks
2.) wont rust
3.) has a higher payload because of the lighter body
There will always be some kind of drawback, and this happens to be it, poor panel fitment on some.
Besides, cant tell from the drivers seat.
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BubbaKen (08-25-2017)
08-25-2017, 10:23 AM
#43
The one that worries me the most above all other issues is the sudden complete brake failures posted elsewhere. That is a MAJOR issue IMO.
08-25-2017, 10:39 AM
#44
sounds like you have another dealership that sucks and I wish we could start keeping a list of them but that's a rant for another day.
Inspections though - seriously - people cavitch about panel gaps well check them but before you do go out and check the shop manuals for that car - or the one closest to it. IE pick up the 2016 f150 if shopping a 2017 see what's acceptable to the shop manual and keep that in mind - if it's a concern to you.
make sure to test the headlights - brake lights - interior lights. Test the radio and all the speakers individually - make sure they all work - roll up and down all windows, etc. move seats, at least look over all the features you need.
I don't know how many people buy cars without even testing it all first. it's a 20+ K investment. I know a guy that bought a taurus SHO that had nothing but issues with it - starting complaining about the panel gaps at the front door. then the oil leaked, then the lights wouldn't work. Opens the hood one day and finds wireloom that just laying open.
The dealer he bought the car from wrecked it patched it and put it out on the lot as new. Knowing full well most people buy a car with a simple test drive and "oh i love the color" and didn't even open the hood. which is why that guy did.
so yes when people have issues with a new car like this I will indeed rant about inspecting the thing before you sign the paper.
.
Inspections though - seriously - people cavitch about panel gaps well check them but before you do go out and check the shop manuals for that car - or the one closest to it. IE pick up the 2016 f150 if shopping a 2017 see what's acceptable to the shop manual and keep that in mind - if it's a concern to you.
make sure to test the headlights - brake lights - interior lights. Test the radio and all the speakers individually - make sure they all work - roll up and down all windows, etc. move seats, at least look over all the features you need.
I don't know how many people buy cars without even testing it all first. it's a 20+ K investment. I know a guy that bought a taurus SHO that had nothing but issues with it - starting complaining about the panel gaps at the front door. then the oil leaked, then the lights wouldn't work. Opens the hood one day and finds wireloom that just laying open.
The dealer he bought the car from wrecked it patched it and put it out on the lot as new. Knowing full well most people buy a car with a simple test drive and "oh i love the color" and didn't even open the hood. which is why that guy did.
so yes when people have issues with a new car like this I will indeed rant about inspecting the thing before you sign the paper.
.
lets take it into the wash bay?
seriously these trucks leak, its a major issue that has no resolution in sight
08-25-2017, 11:46 AM
#45
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seadragon
The one that worries me the most above all other issues is the sudden complete brake failures posted elsewhere. That is a MAJOR issue IMO.
The one that worries me the most above all other issues is the sudden complete brake failures posted elsewhere. That is a MAJOR issue IMO.
08-25-2017, 12:30 PM
#46
08-25-2017, 12:36 PM
#47
https://www.f150forum.com/f118/brake...e-ford-392279/
https://www.f150forum.com/f118/maste...issues-355329/
https://www.f150forum.com/f118/f150-...h-hour-353374/
http://autoweek.com/article/recalls/...-braking-power
Last edited by seadragon; 08-25-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Apples (08-25-2017)
08-25-2017, 03:26 PM
#48
Senior Member
Actually I am correct in what I said. There is a ton of information out there in regards to the differences between stamping steel and stamping aluminum. The issue I refer to is called springback. That is where the metal is trying to return to it's original shape, and aluminum has 3 times that of steel, one third the elastic modulus of steel.
Nearly all stamped parts exhibit springback. Stamping contours created by plastic deformation act as barriers that prevent complete return of the atomic cell to the stable state. This creates dangerous residual or trapped stresses. Any subsequent forming, metal trimming, hole punching, bracket welding, heattreatment or other disruption of the balanced stresses will cause more springback and variance from dimensional specifications.
Because a door is multiple pieces of aluminum and not formed all at one time, there are several steps involved to create the door, each step adding more stress to the metal. When the outer panel is folded over to the inner panel, this is where things can go wrong and is being seen by many on their trucks.
Airplanes use different grades of aluminum compared to what is used in cars and trucks. The parts are formed soft, heat treated to the temper required, then formed again or straightened as they cool to maintain the shape. The rest of the pieces are joined with rivets, or welded, or adhesives. Other parts are rolled into shape. Comparing an airplane to a car is oranges to walnuts, not even in the same food group.
Another issue of stamping aluminum over steel is that as each sheet is stamped, it leaves behind small particles of aluminum oxide, which over time can cause the metal to stick to the punch and die, change the actual dimensions of the die, and if not cleaned properly and frequently, can damage either the die, or the parts being formed. Even though lubricants are used to prevent this, it still happens with enough parts being produced. This also can cause variances from the first sheet stamped to xx number of sheets later in the run, another factor as to why the doors on some trucks don't line up.
This is only a fraction of what Ford had to go through to create the F150 out of Aluminum. Since the two metals are so different in their workability, they had to come up with new ways to assemble the parts, make new machines to form the parts, etc. Going from steel to aluminum is no small feat, and unfortunately, not every part will be as good as it can be with steel.
Nearly all stamped parts exhibit springback. Stamping contours created by plastic deformation act as barriers that prevent complete return of the atomic cell to the stable state. This creates dangerous residual or trapped stresses. Any subsequent forming, metal trimming, hole punching, bracket welding, heattreatment or other disruption of the balanced stresses will cause more springback and variance from dimensional specifications.
Because a door is multiple pieces of aluminum and not formed all at one time, there are several steps involved to create the door, each step adding more stress to the metal. When the outer panel is folded over to the inner panel, this is where things can go wrong and is being seen by many on their trucks.
Airplanes use different grades of aluminum compared to what is used in cars and trucks. The parts are formed soft, heat treated to the temper required, then formed again or straightened as they cool to maintain the shape. The rest of the pieces are joined with rivets, or welded, or adhesives. Other parts are rolled into shape. Comparing an airplane to a car is oranges to walnuts, not even in the same food group.
Another issue of stamping aluminum over steel is that as each sheet is stamped, it leaves behind small particles of aluminum oxide, which over time can cause the metal to stick to the punch and die, change the actual dimensions of the die, and if not cleaned properly and frequently, can damage either the die, or the parts being formed. Even though lubricants are used to prevent this, it still happens with enough parts being produced. This also can cause variances from the first sheet stamped to xx number of sheets later in the run, another factor as to why the doors on some trucks don't line up.
This is only a fraction of what Ford had to go through to create the F150 out of Aluminum. Since the two metals are so different in their workability, they had to come up with new ways to assemble the parts, make new machines to form the parts, etc. Going from steel to aluminum is no small feat, and unfortunately, not every part will be as good as it can be with steel.
how about we try ANSI designation of ALLOYS. There are many ANSI designated alloys used in past and current aircraft production that are used in automotive, industrial, surgical and other industries you will not however find it marketed by the makers as aircraft grade.
The alloy used in the F150 is slightly unique in automotive body production but it isn't new, it has been used on military products and even get this aircraft parts. specifically on the Boeing 777.
stamping of AL isn't new was my point - alloy not with standing. spring back yes is a common issue and get this. anyone that bothers to look up the design critera for stamping AL will find charts on the stuff for specific AL alloys. This idea that just because it's stamped from AL it must be inferior to steel is absurd.
as far as quality control - perhaps there are issue. I do however find it funny that no matter what ford car forum group you are on there is at least 3 different thread related to panel gaps because some people focus on that and expect a car like a ford mustang to have the same panel gaps as an infiniti g37. hilarious.
I am trying, guys. I really am. Fortunately, except for the water leaking, the truck is mechanically sound, and that's what I'm most concerned about. It hauls *** and drives smooth now that the vibrations are almost gone. I can always switch tires and/or wheels down the road if I wish.
I'm gonna try to adjust a few more things and try to leave it alone and deal with it. I've pretty much come to the consensus that the cosmetic issues can't be fixed. It's a damn shame, it really is, that in 2017 you could have a vehicle with misshapen body panels, regardless of what type of metal you're using. Once I get to a certain point I'm just gonna leave it alone and go about my life.
What makes me feel a little better is when I spoke with my father about it earlier, considering I got my OCD from him. He said his 2011 Tacoma had numerous issues when he first got it as well, two of which still aren't corrected to this day but he said screw it. But still.
I'm gonna try to adjust a few more things and try to leave it alone and deal with it. I've pretty much come to the consensus that the cosmetic issues can't be fixed. It's a damn shame, it really is, that in 2017 you could have a vehicle with misshapen body panels, regardless of what type of metal you're using. Once I get to a certain point I'm just gonna leave it alone and go about my life.
What makes me feel a little better is when I spoke with my father about it earlier, considering I got my OCD from him. He said his 2011 Tacoma had numerous issues when he first got it as well, two of which still aren't corrected to this day but he said screw it. But still.
However one other bit to consider here. The F150 is one of the highest volume selling vehicles on the american road - might even be number 1 but I'm not sure. for 2016 I believe the claim is something like 820,000 units sold. now let's say there's a 1% major issue rate - like the water leak thing. One percent doesn't sound so much but that would be 8200 units. but that would me that 99% of product is sound as a pound.
but let's say it's 0.5%. now you have that issue on 4100 units. But statistically that means 99.5% of the population is good. People that work production management and 6 sigma see where I'm going here.
I don't know where ford draws the line - for most groups I deal with it varies from 99.5 to 99.9% for most components. with safety components and other critical equipment being 99.999% and that's surely not going to be body parts. (computer controls, airbags, fuse panels etc)
So seeing an issue pop up for a number of people - fairly serious - but not detrimental to safety - doesn't worry me so much. It happens - it's bound to happen. In the world of cars - this vehicle is sadly one of the most popular and while that's for good reason it also skews the numbers for statistical quality control.
08-25-2017, 03:39 PM
#49
Senior Member
@Napalm - well said.
Plus the aluminum thickness used is not the same as if steel is used. So there is no meaningful comparison of the stamping springback here.
Plus the aluminum thickness used is not the same as if steel is used. So there is no meaningful comparison of the stamping springback here.
08-25-2017, 03:45 PM
#50
Senior Member
Had I read these issues before buying the F150 I would have certainly considered it. As such I've tested mine and there are no issues.