2019 prices increase on all trims.
10-23-2018, 03:05 PM
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
10-23-2018, 03:51 PM
#22
When I said the tariffs increased prices I meant the $500 increase across all trim levels. Any additional increase for a given trim level above $500 is because more equipment is now standard for that trim level.
For those of you that think the tariffs are just an excuse or BS, you just have no idea what is happening. The tariffs raise the price of aluminum and steel in US. It does not matter if that steel is foreign or domestic. The low cost foreign metal is now more expensive because of the tariff and the domestic producers raise their prices to match, in theory spurring more domestic production and investment. But the cost of EVERYTHING that is made with those metals goes up. It takes a while for the cost to filter in to the market, but it indeed does. In the end it's a tax on consumers to subsidize a domestic industry. Inflation anyone, or have you all forgotten the mid 70's and early 80's?
For those of you that think the tariffs are just an excuse or BS, you just have no idea what is happening. The tariffs raise the price of aluminum and steel in US. It does not matter if that steel is foreign or domestic. The low cost foreign metal is now more expensive because of the tariff and the domestic producers raise their prices to match, in theory spurring more domestic production and investment. But the cost of EVERYTHING that is made with those metals goes up. It takes a while for the cost to filter in to the market, but it indeed does. In the end it's a tax on consumers to subsidize a domestic industry. Inflation anyone, or have you all forgotten the mid 70's and early 80's?
10-23-2018, 05:18 PM
#23
Senior Member
In addition to the raw materials being more expensive, regardless of their country of origin, all of the electronics down to each little sensor and switch are more expensive if they come from China. It all adds up.
10-23-2018, 07:20 PM
#24
Canada produces a lot of Aluminum, and is a major world supplier. Despite the NAFTA agreement or whatever it is called now, the tarrifs for steel and Aluminum remain in place.
The F150 uses a great deal of Aluminum and Electronics. You start a trade war and prices go up!
The F150 uses a great deal of Aluminum and Electronics. You start a trade war and prices go up!
10-23-2018, 08:00 PM
#25
Senior Member
....Inflation anyone, or have you all forgotten the mid 70's and early 80's?...
If one was lucky to find a gas station that had fuel it was long lines with rationing too.
This is only one of the problems relying on foreign imports for domestic consumption.
Take China for example.
China exports vehicles into the US with a 2% and change tariff. On the other hand, China places a 25% tariff on US vehicles into their country.
Not to mention China's stealing of US technology patents and other intellectual properties.
Some foreign countries heavily subsidize their raw material and other industries in order to squash similar US industries for a complete reliance on their exported raw materials and other products.
Its no wonder our country has lost most of its manufacturing base over the last few decades becoming more of a low paying service oriented economy.
I will agree the current tariff situation will drive up consumer prices but as i mentioned, hopefully only for the short term.
The bigger picture of U.S. self independence from foreign imports and more manufacturing jobs needs to be comprehended instead of focusing on the small picture.
When we rely solely on cheap foreign imports to keep our economy going, they held our country's by one if its gonads.
The effect of more high paying manufacturing jobs adds more tax revenue which theoretically will reduce the national deficit if Congress doesn't **** that added tax revenue away.
Our national debt is around 20 trillion dollars give or take. Thats trillioin with a T.
That 20 trillion is borrowed from foreign countries (of which China is a large bond holder) and other private bond issues.
We the tax payers have to pay interest on that borrowed money which comes from our Federal tax dollars.
That tax money which is around 7% of the Federal budget adds up to almost 400 billion dollars a year paid by our Federal taxes.
If China or other large Nat'l debt bond holders threaten to cash in their bonds coupled by our reliance on their imports...
.... then they have our country by both gonads.
10-23-2018, 10:47 PM
#27
I remember the early 70's very well. To be exact the Arab oil embargo where fuel prices skyrocketed.
If one was lucky to find a gas station that had fuel it was long lines with rationing too.
This is only one of the problems relying on foreign imports for domestic consumption.
Take China for example.
China exports vehicles into the US with a 2% and change tariff. On the other hand, China places a 25% tariff on US vehicles into their country.
Not to mention China's stealing of US technology patents and other intellectual properties.
Some foreign countries heavily subsidize their raw material and other industries in order to squash similar US industries for a complete reliance on their exported raw materials and other products.
Its no wonder our country has lost most of its manufacturing base over the last few decades becoming more of a low paying service oriented economy.
I will agree the current tariff situation will drive up consumer prices but as i mentioned, hopefully only for the short term.
The bigger picture of U.S. self independence from foreign imports and more manufacturing jobs needs to be comprehended instead of focusing on the small picture.
When we rely solely on cheap foreign imports to keep our economy going, they held our country's by one if its gonads.
The effect of more high paying manufacturing jobs adds more tax revenue which theoretically will reduce the national deficit if Congress doesn't **** that added tax revenue away.
Our national debt is around 20 trillion dollars give or take. Thats trillioin with a T.
That 20 trillion is borrowed from foreign countries (of which China is a large bond holder) and other private bond issues.
We the tax payers have to pay interest on that borrowed money which comes from our Federal tax dollars.
That tax money which is around 7% of the Federal budget adds up to almost 400 billion dollars a year paid by our Federal taxes.
If China or other large Nat'l debt bond holders threaten to cash in their bonds coupled by our reliance on their imports...
.... then they have our country by both gonads.
If one was lucky to find a gas station that had fuel it was long lines with rationing too.
This is only one of the problems relying on foreign imports for domestic consumption.
Take China for example.
China exports vehicles into the US with a 2% and change tariff. On the other hand, China places a 25% tariff on US vehicles into their country.
Not to mention China's stealing of US technology patents and other intellectual properties.
Some foreign countries heavily subsidize their raw material and other industries in order to squash similar US industries for a complete reliance on their exported raw materials and other products.
Its no wonder our country has lost most of its manufacturing base over the last few decades becoming more of a low paying service oriented economy.
I will agree the current tariff situation will drive up consumer prices but as i mentioned, hopefully only for the short term.
The bigger picture of U.S. self independence from foreign imports and more manufacturing jobs needs to be comprehended instead of focusing on the small picture.
When we rely solely on cheap foreign imports to keep our economy going, they held our country's by one if its gonads.
The effect of more high paying manufacturing jobs adds more tax revenue which theoretically will reduce the national deficit if Congress doesn't **** that added tax revenue away.
Our national debt is around 20 trillion dollars give or take. Thats trillioin with a T.
That 20 trillion is borrowed from foreign countries (of which China is a large bond holder) and other private bond issues.
We the tax payers have to pay interest on that borrowed money which comes from our Federal tax dollars.
That tax money which is around 7% of the Federal budget adds up to almost 400 billion dollars a year paid by our Federal taxes.
If China or other large Nat'l debt bond holders threaten to cash in their bonds coupled by our reliance on their imports...
.... then they have our country by both gonads.
Last edited by ModularFord; 10-23-2018 at 11:09 PM.
10-24-2018, 05:45 AM
#28
The $20 Trillion national debt is not 'owed' to foreign countries. The national debt is owed to holders of Treasuries. You are conflating national debt and trade deficits. Trade deficits are not a good thing, but they don't create national debt. National debt is created by federal budget deficits. The vast majority of the federal budget goes to social programs (Social Security and Medicare being the biggest) and the military. You cut the deficit by cutting spending and/or raising taxes. No politician on either side has guts to vote for cuts in Social Security or Medicare or tax increases.
10-24-2018, 08:31 PM
#30
Senior Member
Last I remember Chinas national debt was $5.2 Trillion, their GDP is only a bit more than that. China’s growing national debt is a huge economic issue over there. If I recall correctly the U.S. owns a majority of China’s foreign debt.... up to 80%.....who has who by the gonads again? Most of our debt as well as China’s is owed back to the people and SSA etc......it’s a fictional number that every country has......and most developed or developing nations have a ridiculous debt in today’s world....at the end of the day it’s a fictional fantasy number in LaLa land. You don’t pay off all your debt you liquidate it, never goes away. You issue more bonds, grow industry/ economy and through the increased revenues you pay it back only to issue more bonds again. The growing debt is cause for concern however and should be addressed and not kicked down the road, scary how some seem to not give a care. If all the bond holders turned them in they would send the world economy into collapse and they’d lose big time.....so only an idiot would do that. Personally I’m glad we are finally protecting and fostering growth in US industry. What we see here are immediate side effects, then again doesn’t any policy have side effects? I think so. It’s nice to see the playing field leveled with tariffs and policy change. I fully support protecting U.S goods.
China is also a great manipulator of their currency to basically keep it low relative to the dollar in an effort to keep their export prices down.
Their economic growth is currently around 7% down from a consistent 10% in previous years.
IMO they would be foolish to call in all of our Treasury bonds all at once but but their leverage would be to sell off the U.S. bonds little by little or even threaten which would raise our interest rates thus slowing down our economy having the effect of relying more on their exports.
China is still a communist country leveraging their export advantage by picking and choosing capitalist financial concepts to their advantage.
No one knows 100% for sure China's financial status as they continually lie, hide or fudge their numbers.
And our national debt is a fictional number?
...it’s a fictional number that every country has...
Welcome to the brave new wold of foreign entanglement globalism.