Eff0neFitty

I've got the Trailer Tow Package. But even with no trailer, I thought the amount you haul ("payload") is counted toward your GCWR. I guess I just don't see why with a GCWR of 12,800 the payload would be that much lower than other configurations. If the 2.7 can tow 7,700 pounds in the RV & Towing guide, then shouldn't there be enough engine power to haul 2,000 pounds?

blkZ28spt

The limit isn't engine power as much as it is engine cooling and/or trans cooling and/or truck chassis/suspension/braking capacity.

What "payload" is, is this:

GVWR: The maximum that your vehicle (truck) can weigh. As measured on its 4 wheels (so, tongue weight of a trailer, when connected, counts).

Curb Weight: The weight of your vehicle, personally, when it leaves the factory, completely stock and empty other than the weight of a full tank of fuel (curb weight accounts for having a full tank)

Payload: Subtract curb weight from GVWR, because the theory is that everything (everything) you add to the truck after it has left the factory can weigh up to that yellow payload sticker without exceed GVWR. It is a calculated number, and literally everything counts against it, the driver, passengers, heavier tires, a tonneau cover, thicker floor mats, everything (because everything that has weight, makes the truck weigh more, which puts you closer to GVWR)

GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is the max that the truck + trailer can weigh.

BUT, generally, in order to max out your GCWR and max out your trailer weight, you pretty much need a completely empty and unloaded truck with absolutely nothing added to it from the factory other than a not-too-heavy driver, and nothing else whatsoever, and even then probably a little lower than ideal % for tongue weight.

So in the real world as soon as you add any weight at all the truck, even from so much as a passenger, that extra payload/hauling means your actual real world max trailer weight/GCWR isn't going to be achievable because you won't have enough tongue weight left (payload) to support that weight of trailer

smokeywren

Good job, blkz28spt. You've naiedl it, with one minor clarification.

That gives you gross payload capacity, which is the number on the yellow sticker on the driver's door jamb. That is not a very useful number for calculating the max trailer weight you can tow without being overloaded. Instead you want to know the payload capacity available for hitch weight. That's the GVWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded tow vehicle ready for towing. "Wet" means full of gas. "Loaded" means including everybody and everything that will be in it when towing - people. pets, cooler, toys, tools, jacks, firewood, everything. You won't find that number anywhere because nobody knows how much your "everybody and everything" weighs. So to get that number, you have to load the tow vehicle with everybody and everything that will be in it when towing, fill up with gas, then weigh the wet and loaded tow vehicle. Then subtract the weight of the wet and loaded tow vehicle from the GVWR of the tow vehicle and you have payload capacity available for hitch weight.

Then using junior-high math, you can easily calculate the max trailer weight you can tow without being overloaded.

F175

A back of the napkin approach can get you pretty close. Take yellow payload number, subtract you, mates, dogs, kids, groceries, wood, generator, and 100 lbs for a wd hitch, divide what is left over by .13, and that would be pretty close to your max LOADED trailer weight allowed. It will be pretty damn close if you were honest with the weights. (especially the wife’s!)

blkZ28spt

That was the reason I included this part

"BUT, generally, in order to max out your GCWR and max out your trailer weight, you pretty much need a completely empty and unloaded truck with absolutely nothing added to it from the factory other than a not-too-heavy driver, and nothing else whatsoever, and even then probably a little lower than ideal % for tongue weight.

So in the real world as soon as you add any weight at all the truck, even from so much as a passenger, that extra payload/hauling means your actual real world max trailer weight/GCWR isn't going to be achievable because you won't have enough tongue weight left (payload) to support that weight of trailer"

charles_slc

1) Marketing
2) Marketing
3) Payload and it's relation to tow rating and GCWR depends on the type of trailer.

While it's recommended that a travel trailer have 10-15% gross weight on the tongue, a quick google search shows that a tandem axle boat trailer only needs 5%.

You can even find trailers with effectively no tongue weight.

Flamingtaco

Hauling (consuming payload)... payload is about how much the suspension can support without excess wear, and how well the truck handles when loaded to it's GVWR. Most F150's can haul 3000lb over short distances without issue, but how will the truck handle? Will it greatly understeer during that emergency turn because of the lower weight on the front axle? Will it lose a lot of front end traction during that emergency stop due to excess camber? Will it exceed the limit for stopping distance? Does it become prone to rolling over?

Doesn't matter how much a vehicle is capable of carrying if it can't meet the stability requirements of the NHTSA with that weight.

henfield

Great thread. I almost fell for a used platinum Friday, but forgot to look at the payload sticker. Forgetting that truck.
I'm anticipating towing an off road truck so around 6500lbs for that including trailer, tools etc, usually solo or plus 1 and our stuff.

I've also come to a few conclusions. Dealers should stop ordering the basic towing package with the 3.5 just get the max tow so you get the 36 gallon tank as well, for less than basic tow plus 36. Pro trailer assist is only useful if you always tow the same trailers.

rd.king

You can name and store several trailers in the system and just call up the one you hook up as needed.

blkZ28spt

BUT, if they do the two package + 36 gallon tank + locking 3.55 differential = higher MSRP than "max tow", would that give the dealers more room to discount vs the MSRP as well? I won't pretend to really understand all the complexities and games between dealer and manufacturer, but clearly it costs the same or less to build a truck with trailer/36/locking than to build a truck with max tow...does the dealer really pay that much more for the trio, in the end? So what I'm wondering is, maybe the dealer just pockets more this way?

I kept wondering that because I wanted a max trailer tow when I bought my truck because I wanted those 3 constituents and max is cheaper, but, I'll be damned if there weren't 10 times more trucks on the lot with the three separates than with max tow. And I didn't want to order and wait.