help with amp
Senior Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 667
Likes: 43
From: North DFW
help with amp
Originally Posted by OTG02
Like I said I am still learning the radio and speaker and sub stuff lol. I know u don't go by the watt and u go by rms but I don't know mine lol. I do know I got something right because the sub don't sound like garbage.
Far as the amp overpowered a bit more then sub I thought it was a bad thing. Possible blow the sub. Learn something new everyday. This is why I don't instal systems lol. Though I did my own and like I said sounds good to me. Then again I am deaf in my right ear hahah
Far as the amp overpowered a bit more then sub I thought it was a bad thing. Possible blow the sub. Learn something new everyday. This is why I don't instal systems lol. Though I did my own and like I said sounds good to me. Then again I am deaf in my right ear hahah
2015 F-150 3.5 ecoboost
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,168
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From: Canton Ohio
He means that if your amp is rated at 1200rms and the sub at 600rms, that it's better for it to be like this because you can turn the power down on the amp to match the sub level with the gain control on the amp. Doing this stresses the amp less and is better for the amp and such whereas the other way around, say a 1200rms rated sub with a 600rms amp, you're sub obviously isn't going to perform like it's supposed to. It may sound okay but it would sound much better with the correct power going to it. And having to have the amp cranked up to get as close to the subwoofers rms stresses it more and creates more heat and such which could cause premature failure or at least fail sooner than the other way around if you get what I'm saying.
GO SOX!
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,507
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From: Lakeland, FL
I thought I knew what I was doing when I was a kid. I then got into the business where we had a division that did nothing but stadium sound. I quickly found I was WAY off from what I thought I knew. Take a look at this article. It has some good info in it.
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/lea...ide.html?lcg=4
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/lea...ide.html?lcg=4
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 216
Likes: 41
Wow this thread is full of HORRIBLE advise so far. Yikes.
First of all, ratings for most amplifiers are inaccurate to begin with. Same goes for speakers as none of this is independently validated in lower end components. Manufactures can advertise a 1,200 watt amp and sell it for $150.00. There is no such thing as a 1,200 amp for $150... To get a better idea of the true current an amplifier will produce, take a look at the fuse size/setup. Some of these "1000 watt" amps will have a single 20 amp fuse...basic math and understanding of electronics will tell you bought a 1,000 watt box with a 100 watt amp inside it.
Second point, a 600 watt amp feeding 1,200 watt subs will not sound like garbage. In fact that ratio of undersized amp to speaker is completely useless. The system will deliver up to its weakest link. If that amp can push = 600 watts, that's a good amt of audio hp and it will sound like a 600 watt system. Sensitivity of the driver is the critical measurement as it relates to amp size. That's measured in db. Higher the db, the better that driver will work with limited power as a measure of efficiency.
Third point, overpowering a driver with an amplifier too large can be compensated by gain controls is, well, a terrible/inaccurate point. Gain control doesn't limit overall amp output; its not a "governor", it simply compensates levels relative to the input signal.
Now, the only danger of running an undersized amp is when it begins to clip. Clipping is essentially the amplifier opening a bypass valve when its operated beyond it's ability to deliver clean power. The opening and closing of this gate (in all lower end amplifiers, by lower end I'm talking anything under $1000) sends a voltage spike to the driver which will damage the voice coil over time.
Bridging vs Stereo: The advantages depend on the amp and the impedance of your drivers. In my truck I opted to bridge my 900watt Pioneer to my two 4 ohm sub's run in parallel. My amp is delivering about 460 watts RMS into this 2 ohm load which ends up being about 80 watts higher than if I ran it at 4 ohms in stereo.
First of all, ratings for most amplifiers are inaccurate to begin with. Same goes for speakers as none of this is independently validated in lower end components. Manufactures can advertise a 1,200 watt amp and sell it for $150.00. There is no such thing as a 1,200 amp for $150... To get a better idea of the true current an amplifier will produce, take a look at the fuse size/setup. Some of these "1000 watt" amps will have a single 20 amp fuse...basic math and understanding of electronics will tell you bought a 1,000 watt box with a 100 watt amp inside it.
Second point, a 600 watt amp feeding 1,200 watt subs will not sound like garbage. In fact that ratio of undersized amp to speaker is completely useless. The system will deliver up to its weakest link. If that amp can push = 600 watts, that's a good amt of audio hp and it will sound like a 600 watt system. Sensitivity of the driver is the critical measurement as it relates to amp size. That's measured in db. Higher the db, the better that driver will work with limited power as a measure of efficiency.
Third point, overpowering a driver with an amplifier too large can be compensated by gain controls is, well, a terrible/inaccurate point. Gain control doesn't limit overall amp output; its not a "governor", it simply compensates levels relative to the input signal.
Now, the only danger of running an undersized amp is when it begins to clip. Clipping is essentially the amplifier opening a bypass valve when its operated beyond it's ability to deliver clean power. The opening and closing of this gate (in all lower end amplifiers, by lower end I'm talking anything under $1000) sends a voltage spike to the driver which will damage the voice coil over time.
Bridging vs Stereo: The advantages depend on the amp and the impedance of your drivers. In my truck I opted to bridge my 900watt Pioneer to my two 4 ohm sub's run in parallel. My amp is delivering about 460 watts RMS into this 2 ohm load which ends up being about 80 watts higher than if I ran it at 4 ohms in stereo.
Last edited by tcrote5516; Mar 10, 2016 at 07:32 PM.
Title
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,672
Likes: 499
From: USA
What are your thoughts on distortion, air space, directional placement, dampening, amperes, second battery, interference, and how many STEM degrees do you have?
I'm kidding, no one cares.
Dave, if you like, you can post what you're looking at buying and budget so we can project our thoughts. We realize you're not going into any SPL or SQ competitions soon but you might as well get the most from your money.
I'm kidding, no one cares.
Dave, if you like, you can post what you're looking at buying and budget so we can project our thoughts. We realize you're not going into any SPL or SQ competitions soon but you might as well get the most from your money.
Last edited by Tackle; Mar 10, 2016 at 08:37 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 288
Likes: 15
Get the mono amp. Get an amp that is rated for more than your subs are rated for. You'll never see the actual wattage that the amp produces at a specific impedance after box/impedance rise. Set your gain with a digital multimeter assuming you have one. That is a fairly safe way to set your gain.
Secondly, pre fab boxes are garbage. Build your own that is custom tailored to the sub/s you are purchasing.
Yes, this thread is full of horrible advice.
Secondly, pre fab boxes are garbage. Build your own that is custom tailored to the sub/s you are purchasing.
Yes, this thread is full of horrible advice.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 667
Likes: 43
From: North DFW
help with amp
Originally Posted by ScrewThat
He means that if your amp is rated at 1200rms and the sub at 600rms, that it's better for it to be like this because you can turn the power down on the amp to match the sub level with the gain control on the amp. Doing this stresses the amp less and is better for the amp and such whereas the other way around, say a 1200rms rated sub with a 600rms amp, you're sub obviously isn't going to perform like it's supposed to. It may sound okay but it would sound much better with the correct power going to it. And having to have the amp cranked up to get as close to the subwoofers rms stresses it more and creates more heat and such which could cause premature failure or at least fail sooner than the other way around if you get what I'm saying.
Originally Posted by tcrote5516
Wow this thread is full of HORRIBLE advise so far. Yikes.
First of all, ratings for most amplifiers are inaccurate to begin with. Same goes for speakers as none of this is independently validated in lower end components. Manufactures can advertise a 1,200 watt amp and sell it for $150.00. There is no such thing as a 1,200 amp for $150... To get a better idea of the true current an amplifier will produce, take a look at the fuse size/setup. Some of these "1000 watt" amps will have a single 20 amp fuse...basic math and understanding of electronics will tell you bought a 1,000 watt box with a 100 watt amp inside it.
Second point, a 600 watt amp feeding 1,200 watt subs will not sound like garbage. In fact that ratio of undersized amp to speaker is completely useless. The system will deliver up to its weakest link. If that amp can push = 600 watts, that's a good amt of audio hp and it will sound like a 600 watt system. Sensitivity of the driver is the critical measurement as it relates to amp size. That's measured in db. Higher the db, the better that driver will work with limited power as a measure of efficiency.
Third point, overpowering a driver with an amplifier too large can be compensated by gain controls is, well, a terrible/inaccurate point. Gain control doesn't limit overall amp output; its not a "governor", it simply compensates levels relative to the input signal.
Now, the only danger of running an undersized amp is when it begins to clip. Clipping is essentially the amplifier opening a bypass valve when its operated beyond it's ability to deliver clean power. The opening and closing of this gate (in all lower end amplifiers, by lower end I'm talking anything under $1000) sends a voltage spike to the driver which will damage the voice coil over time.
Bridging vs Stereo: The advantages depend on the amp and the impedance of your drivers. In my truck I opted to bridge my 900watt Pioneer to my two 4 ohm sub's run in parallel. My amp is delivering about 460 watts RMS into this 2 ohm load which ends up being about 80 watts higher than if I ran it at 4 ohms in stereo.
First of all, ratings for most amplifiers are inaccurate to begin with. Same goes for speakers as none of this is independently validated in lower end components. Manufactures can advertise a 1,200 watt amp and sell it for $150.00. There is no such thing as a 1,200 amp for $150... To get a better idea of the true current an amplifier will produce, take a look at the fuse size/setup. Some of these "1000 watt" amps will have a single 20 amp fuse...basic math and understanding of electronics will tell you bought a 1,000 watt box with a 100 watt amp inside it.
Second point, a 600 watt amp feeding 1,200 watt subs will not sound like garbage. In fact that ratio of undersized amp to speaker is completely useless. The system will deliver up to its weakest link. If that amp can push = 600 watts, that's a good amt of audio hp and it will sound like a 600 watt system. Sensitivity of the driver is the critical measurement as it relates to amp size. That's measured in db. Higher the db, the better that driver will work with limited power as a measure of efficiency.
Third point, overpowering a driver with an amplifier too large can be compensated by gain controls is, well, a terrible/inaccurate point. Gain control doesn't limit overall amp output; its not a "governor", it simply compensates levels relative to the input signal.
Now, the only danger of running an undersized amp is when it begins to clip. Clipping is essentially the amplifier opening a bypass valve when its operated beyond it's ability to deliver clean power. The opening and closing of this gate (in all lower end amplifiers, by lower end I'm talking anything under $1000) sends a voltage spike to the driver which will damage the voice coil over time.
Bridging vs Stereo: The advantages depend on the amp and the impedance of your drivers. In my truck I opted to bridge my 900watt Pioneer to my two 4 ohm sub's run in parallel. My amp is delivering about 460 watts RMS into this 2 ohm load which ends up being about 80 watts higher than if I ran it at 4 ohms in stereo.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 216
Likes: 41
What are your thoughts on distortion, air space, directional placement, dampening, amperes, second battery, interference, and how many STEM degrees do you have?
I'm kidding, no one cares.
Dave, if you like, you can post what you're looking at buying and budget so we can project our thoughts. We realize you're not going into any SPL or SQ competitions soon but you might as well get the most from your money.
I'm kidding, no one cares.
Dave, if you like, you can post what you're looking at buying and budget so we can project our thoughts. We realize you're not going into any SPL or SQ competitions soon but you might as well get the most from your money.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 216
Likes: 41
I can stand by a turd too...it would still be a turd.
Instead I would rather put time into a well thought out and accurate response to the OP. Sorry if that got under your skin but your "advise" was just plain wrong and it seems as if every time someone calls you out you go on the offensive vs. taking a second to learn something new. Not a good trait but I will try to teach rather than argue...
YOU STATED:
"Mono is good for a sub as it can support lower impedance, typically down to 0 ohms."
I'm assuming you are not saying low impedance is good for a sub as that would make zero sense. The sub is the load. Assuming you are talking about the amp that's also not true, in fact it's so wrong it's backwards. Amplifier impedance actually is decreased in bridged mode. A typical amp capable of operating at 4 ohms bridged will be stable at 2 ohms driven in stereo. This has to do with the amps power supplies ability to dissipate heat and push past that high resistance and when you bridge it your essentially doubling down on load but with the advantage of efficiency so resistance tolerance is reduced.
YOU STATED:
"when you say you have a 1200 watt sub and 600 watt amp. That sub would be severely underpowered and sound like garbage if you were talking rms. It's better to have an amp slightly over powered than a woofer way under powered. "
You cannot "severely under power a sub" or any speaker for that matter. As I already explained, there is no risk involved with a subpar amp with the exception of pushing it past its limits into clipping. You can however overdrive them with an amplifier that is able to produce more power than the drivers voice coil can handle or; over time the drivers ability to dissipate heat generated.
Sensitivity is the factor to pay attention to when sizing an amplifier that is at or below the drivers power handling ability. Important words there are: at or below. Sensitivity is a audio measurement that is basically a unit of power (1 watt) against a distance (usually 1 meter) to produce a volume level measured in decibels to tell you how efficient that driver will be at given power levels.
YOU STATED:
"For starters, you never speak in max watts as it's completely irrelevant to specing out hardware."
Here we agree but even RMS is not bench marked from company to company so you need to use common sense. Under sizing amp's to 10% of driver capability and setting gains from the head unit down to the amp to leave headroom before distortion is the best policy.
I'm sure I will get a snarky one liner response but I'm actively trying to get the right info out there. I have competed in many IASCA comps over the years, installed professionally in bars, restaurants and homes. Not saying I know it all, but I do know what I post.
Instead I would rather put time into a well thought out and accurate response to the OP. Sorry if that got under your skin but your "advise" was just plain wrong and it seems as if every time someone calls you out you go on the offensive vs. taking a second to learn something new. Not a good trait but I will try to teach rather than argue...
YOU STATED:
"Mono is good for a sub as it can support lower impedance, typically down to 0 ohms."
I'm assuming you are not saying low impedance is good for a sub as that would make zero sense. The sub is the load. Assuming you are talking about the amp that's also not true, in fact it's so wrong it's backwards. Amplifier impedance actually is decreased in bridged mode. A typical amp capable of operating at 4 ohms bridged will be stable at 2 ohms driven in stereo. This has to do with the amps power supplies ability to dissipate heat and push past that high resistance and when you bridge it your essentially doubling down on load but with the advantage of efficiency so resistance tolerance is reduced.
YOU STATED:
"when you say you have a 1200 watt sub and 600 watt amp. That sub would be severely underpowered and sound like garbage if you were talking rms. It's better to have an amp slightly over powered than a woofer way under powered. "
You cannot "severely under power a sub" or any speaker for that matter. As I already explained, there is no risk involved with a subpar amp with the exception of pushing it past its limits into clipping. You can however overdrive them with an amplifier that is able to produce more power than the drivers voice coil can handle or; over time the drivers ability to dissipate heat generated.
Sensitivity is the factor to pay attention to when sizing an amplifier that is at or below the drivers power handling ability. Important words there are: at or below. Sensitivity is a audio measurement that is basically a unit of power (1 watt) against a distance (usually 1 meter) to produce a volume level measured in decibels to tell you how efficient that driver will be at given power levels.
YOU STATED:
"For starters, you never speak in max watts as it's completely irrelevant to specing out hardware."
Here we agree but even RMS is not bench marked from company to company so you need to use common sense. Under sizing amp's to 10% of driver capability and setting gains from the head unit down to the amp to leave headroom before distortion is the best policy.
I'm sure I will get a snarky one liner response but I'm actively trying to get the right info out there. I have competed in many IASCA comps over the years, installed professionally in bars, restaurants and homes. Not saying I know it all, but I do know what I post.