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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 10:52 AM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by Ricktwuhk
Weather, such as rain, also impacts range, as does change in altitude.
Rain affects an EV no different than for an ICE.

At altitude the EV gets better range due to lower wind resistance. But this is splitting hairs. Unlike the HP loss an ICE encounters.

The funny thing I found is how my EV really likes rolling hills of the Ozarks, northeast Alabama, northwest Georgia. Regeneration can only recover 30% to 50% going down hill, but the car seems to like it and consumption rate falls.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 11:05 AM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by N4HHE
It will go down. Seriously. The ideal time to charge an EV for the consumer is at night. The ideal time to charge an EV for the utility is at night when nationwide we have a 50% surplus generating capacity. Unused capacity that EVs can put to use. The ability to sell more electricity with the same capital investment puts money in the utility's pocket they would not otherwise have. Lowering costs.
While generally true, it's a much more complicated issue. Home EV charging can use "free" spinning reserve, and balance the load on the grid, but there will still be more overall power generation so the utility's fuel costs per KWH could go up. And for sources like Hydro, they are generally already using all the water available. On the flip side, if "everyone" has EVs, then the fuel costs could go down since no one will be using hydrocarbons directly in their vehicles.

What we do know for sure, is that the grid can handle an enormous amount of home EV charging with no upgrades, and that charging can actually help with power issues by communicating with the utility and adjusting the rate of charge throughout the night to keep their load steady.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 11:15 AM
  #273  
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So how much power is used by drillers, refiners, pipelines, and gas pumps? That will become available as we make the switch.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 11:39 AM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by Feathermerchant
Rick... - "Weather, such as rain, also impacts range, as does change in altitude."
Trip planning software tends to use change in altitude when calculating range but rain and wind are usually not included.
Originally Posted by N4HHE
Rain affects an EV no different than for an ICE.

At altitude the EV gets better range due to lower wind resistance. But this is splitting hairs. Unlike the HP loss an ICE encounters.

The funny thing I found is how my EV really likes rolling hills of the Ozarks, northeast Alabama, northwest Georgia. Regeneration can only recover 30% to 50% going down hill, but the car seems to like it and consumption rate falls.
The Mach-E's navigation / trip planning takes into account weather. That includes altitude, rain, etc. Of course altitude means going up, and then going down, not the same impact as an ICE vehicle on the efficiency of the engine.

I never compared the Lightning to an ICE, merely said that rain impacts range.

The Mach-E has a range estimate on display, similar to DTE on an ICE vehicle. However, that changes based on weather. Cold impacts EV range dramatically, and that's seen by Mach-Es that sit in the garage over a few days of changing weather, even when the temperature in the garage hasn't changed much.

Today, my Mach-E shows a range at 90% of 166 miles, implying a full range of 184 miles. It was high single digits overnight, and is now 24 degrees outside, and our garage is 32. Recently it was showing 195 at 90%. In the summer it was showing 247.

The accuracy of the range is not good. Ford recently applied an OTA fix, but it's unknown what that did. And, people have found that the GOM (Guess-O-Meter) is very pessimistic, and their real miles per kWh is higher than the GOM suggests. In this case, if you do the math, 184/91kWh = 2.02 m/kWh. I see more like 2.5 as I'm driving locally in the cold weather.

I would expect that the Lightning will incorporate the exact same software as the Mach-E, if not a more current version, and results should be similar.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 12:00 PM
  #275  
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Going up does not mean going down before you charge. Example - Winter Park Colo. Favorite vacation spot. Go up, vacate for days/weeks, go down.
I really doubt that Ford's range estimate includes rain. Just think about it.
We know how temp affects Li-Ion batteries. They like it most at about 100 degF. So no surprise.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 12:28 PM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by Feathermerchant
I really doubt that Ford's range estimate includes rain. Just think about it.
Well, you'd be wrong on that. I can tell you that it does, but here's two citations where Ford says that it does, and that it will get more accurate over time as it pulls in crowdsourced data. The vehicle's navigation actually shows weather on it also.

https://insideevs.com/news/429573/fo...dicted%20range.

Ford will collect data through various inputs of your drive including weather, elevation, driving style, and impressively crowdsourced data from other Mustang Mach-E vehicles to calculate a predicted range. Should cold weather roll in or the driver starts driving more aggressively, Mach-E will alert the driver in the instrument cluster highlighting the new range estimation. This feature is promised to be expanded upon over time through the Mach-E's ability to over-the-air software update almost every module of the vehicle.

https://www.engadget.com/ford-mustan...100041559.html

Ford will try to reduce range anxiety for buyers of its electric Mustang Mach-E by predicting the range more precisely. It unveiled a feature called Intelligent Range that will calculate how far you can go based on factors like driving behavior, weather forecasts and crowdsourced data from other Mach-E vehicles. “Changes in driver behavior and the environment can impact range, which is the reason other electric vehicles often experience significant range adjustments,” said Ford EV charging manager Mark Poll in a statement. Left unsaid is that drivers purchase Mustangs with the aim of exercising their right foot muscles. Doing so in an EV can drastically cut range, especially in one like the Mach-E that can do 0 to 60 mph in the mid-three-second range. The idea is that once Intelligent Range figures out how fast you like to go, it should be able to help you avoid dead battery syndrome.

Ford said that it will use the cloud to combine driver behavior, forecast weather (since temperatures affect battery life) and road/terrain conditions. It will then use fleet averages to improve range estimates, even on roads you’ve never driven. If range will be impacted on a given route, the Mach-E will tell you why and give a new estimate before you depart.

Down the road, Ford will deliver over-the-air updates that factor in “real-time traffic, road-slope, the terrain and elevation of a given route, and even the temperature at [the] final destination,” the automaker said.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 12:58 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Ricktwuhk
....

Today, my Mach-E shows a range at 90% of 166 miles, implying a full range of 184 miles. It was high single digits overnight, and is now 24 degrees outside, and our garage is 32. Recently it was showing 195 at 90%. In the summer it was showing 247.

The accuracy of the range is not good. Ford recently applied an OTA fix, but it's unknown what that did. And, people have found that the GOM (Guess-O-Meter) is very pessimistic, and their real miles per kWh is higher than the GOM suggests. In this case, if you do the math, 184/91kWh = 2.02 m/kWh. I see more like 2.5 as I'm driving locally in the cold weather.

I would expect that the Lightning will incorporate the exact same software as the Mach-E, if not a more current version, and results should be similar.
What you describe is exactly what you get on Tesla. There are two things here and you have to separate them. First you are referring to the gas (SOC - State of Charge) gage. It is simply a guesstimate of how far the car can go based on the SOC and the temperature, not much else. In Tesla you can change this from miles to a percentage and many argue that you should. I never have and don't really buy into that, but it is simply what it is - "How much gas/electricity is in the tank right now?". If you were to take a pickup and have a half a tank of gas and just go drive around on a pretty spring day vs take that same half a tank and go pull a trailer up a mountain on a cold day you are going to get very different results, just as you describe you do on the Mach E.

This is the key and it has taken me a few years to learn it with the Tesla - I'm hoping Ford is the same. That miles indicator is simply a single way of knowing the SOC. However when I get in to drive (I need to have a destination in the navigation) the Tesla will calculate based on real work conditions, real time mileage and current driving habits and will tell me how much SOC I will have when I reach my destination and if I don't have enough, then it will route me to a charging station. Thus estimate that it calculates and re-calculates continuously is very good and very very accurate.

So the bottom line here - that "Fuel Gauge" "SOC Gauge" is simply that - what is in the tank now. You must drive and use the other parts of the software/navigation and let it tell you how far you'll get based on real conditions and the elevation of the roads on your journey to know whether or not you'll have enough to make it.

I don't know how good Ford really is with that part, but Tesla has it almost perfect. The two are very different things and must be treated that way.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 01:37 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Ptoughneigh
While generally true, it's a much more complicated issue. Home EV charging can use "free" spinning reserve, and balance the load on the grid, but there will still be more overall power generation so the utility's fuel costs per KWH could go up. And for sources like Hydro, they are generally already using all the water available. On the flip side, if "everyone" has EVs, then the fuel costs could go down since no one will be using hydrocarbons directly in their vehicles.

What we do know for sure, is that the grid can handle an enormous amount of home EV charging with no upgrades, and that charging can actually help with power issues by communicating with the utility and adjusting the rate of charge throughout the night to keep their load steady.
and when the grid goes down? like in lousiana last year.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 01:46 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by dougg
and when the grid goes down? like in lousiana last year.
Charge your vehicle before the hurricane makes landfall? They are kind of predicted days in advance

If you had a cross country road trip planned, leave for it before the hurricane makes landfall?

PS: Gas stations are often not operational in the aftermath of a major hurricane.

PPS: Having an EV that can provide power to your home is SUPERIOR in a situation like this, actually, compared to a traditional ICE

Nobody is forcing you to buy a Lightning. You clearly don't want one. So don't buy one and stop hating on people who choose something different from you. It's okay.
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Old Jan 16, 2022 | 02:20 PM
  #280  
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I’d love to get a Lightning but I need:

a. More range because of winters. At my cabin we had -28C (-18F) last week. Winter tires are mandatory. The range in my current electrics (Leaf, Volt) is down to half in these conditions.
b. Better charging infrastructure on the way between my home and cabin 550 km (350 miles). For extreme cold, when I tow the occasional trailer etc. I need to be able to charge on the way reliably.

Apart from Tesla, no one has charging infrastructure on my trek to the cabin. Tesla has 4 superchargers on the way. A Lightning would work for me with a bigger battery or that toolbox generator they patented. But I’d rather ditch the ICE and have a bigger battery.
Until we I have more choices, I leased a 2.7 F150 and waiting for Tesla to finally start producing their truck at the Texas plant.

I hope Ford makes a bigger battery pack eventually, with competition from Chevy, Tesla etc heating up in a few years. Love the capability, quality, accessories etc of the F series (have an old 2009 5.4, very reliable and capable, but slowly dying of rust).
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