single "clunk" when starting the engine
5 Year Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 139
Likes: 34
From: Houston, TX
Better yet, wonder if anyone has unbolted the drive shaft from the rear end (support it with a pillow or something), then cranked the truck in park to confirm that the noise is coming from the transmission as opposed to the rear end. I might try that this weekend if I have the time.
Or at least jack the rear of the truck up so the rear wheels can spin freely.....
Or at least jack the rear of the truck up so the rear wheels can spin freely.....
5 Year Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 133
Likes: 53
From: Marietta, GA
So Ford's answer....
The A, B, and D clutch packs engage during start-up. This may cause the truck to rock against the parking pawl, or the driveshaft to momentarily move. This is normal.
My service advisor disagrees with that garbage but that's the answer that they gave. So until enough of us complain, they aren't going to do anything different or revise any software.
The A, B, and D clutch packs engage during start-up. This may cause the truck to rock against the parking pawl, or the driveshaft to momentarily move. This is normal.
My service advisor disagrees with that garbage but that's the answer that they gave. So until enough of us complain, they aren't going to do anything different or revise any software.
5 Year Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 83
Likes: 18
i confirmed this weekend on my truck that it still clunks in Neutral.
This is the response I sent to the BBB to send to Ford:
I can understand that there could be certain amounts of tolerance in the clearances of the ring and pinion gear set that would allow the noise to happen. What Ford has failed to do is to take any measurements of the ring and pinion gear backlash to see if there is the correct or excessive backlash in my truck and others. Ford has not attempted to root cause why some trucks have this issue and some trucks don’t, they simply claim that the issue is normal or a characteristic and send their customers home without any real diagnosis other than an audible and visual inspection. In addition, what Ford has failed to mention in their email is an explanation as to why the driveshaft and differential is being moved when the truck is in Park and it’s entire weight is resting on the parking pawl, which should prevent the transmission from moving the driveshaft at all during engine start. The statement that Ford has made below is applicable to when the truck is placed into Drive or Reverse and the transmission moves the driveshaft in the required direction to move the vehicle. This movement can cause a clunk, but I submit that (at least on my truck if not all 2017/2018 Ford F150 trucks) when the truck shifter is moved into Drive or Reverse, it has never made a clunk like it does when the engine is first started while the transmission is in Park. If the backlash in the ring and pinion gear were really the cause of the clunk, it would do it all the time and on every truck, since the backlash would not change once it has been set, and if the backlash is changing, then this too is a fault that Ford has failed to attempt to diagnose by actually measuring the backlash.
I have also been in contact with two other (among others) Ford F150 owners that have taken their trucks to the dealerships, and we told that the noise is NOT normal. I wont mention the names of the customer or dealerships at this time for fear of reprisal from Ford that would be aimed at said dealerships. One dealer even wanted to replace the 10 speed transmission with transmission after having found high pressure in the transmission lines at engine start when there should be no pressure. The dealer ultimately didn’t replace the transmission and the owner doesn’t know why, but its presumable that Ford instructed the dealer to not replace the transmission. The dealer did make some changes to the truck (I would prefer to not say what), but it didn’t resolve the issue. The owner has stated that she will be taking it back to the dealer for service again.
Lastly, an arbitrator cannot order a change in the vehicle’s option or its design, but he can award a customer a repurchase or replacement when a defect is found that the manufacturer is unwilling or unable to resolve. I fully believe that the arbitrator will not see this as a normal issue and will hopefully cause Ford to actually make the attempt to understand why this issue occurs.
In case you haven’t seen this, Ford told owners of Ford Focus and Ford Fiestas that their transmission problems were “normal” something they would “have to get used to” and that there was nothing more they could do to resolve the issue, and the customer would just have to live with it. A judge disagreed.
http://www.fordtransmissionsettlement.com/
From Ford’s website at: https://corporate.ford.com/careers/d...s/quality.html
“Quality is responsible for driving continuous improvement for the Ford and Lincoln brands to deliver top quality products and services to delight our customers. We achieve this through operational excellence and global processes and tools, such as Global Product Development System, Quality Operating System, New Model Launch, working with integrated teams in Manufacturing, Product Development, Purchasing, Marketing, Sales and Service, etc.”
I ask that the case not be closed, and that an arbitrator be allowed to hear the case, hear the clunk him/herself, watch the videos and see that Ford has done nothing to try to understand and resolve the issue for its owners.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, please call me if you have any questions, any time.
Rey
This is the response I sent to the BBB to send to Ford:
I can understand that there could be certain amounts of tolerance in the clearances of the ring and pinion gear set that would allow the noise to happen. What Ford has failed to do is to take any measurements of the ring and pinion gear backlash to see if there is the correct or excessive backlash in my truck and others. Ford has not attempted to root cause why some trucks have this issue and some trucks don’t, they simply claim that the issue is normal or a characteristic and send their customers home without any real diagnosis other than an audible and visual inspection. In addition, what Ford has failed to mention in their email is an explanation as to why the driveshaft and differential is being moved when the truck is in Park and it’s entire weight is resting on the parking pawl, which should prevent the transmission from moving the driveshaft at all during engine start. The statement that Ford has made below is applicable to when the truck is placed into Drive or Reverse and the transmission moves the driveshaft in the required direction to move the vehicle. This movement can cause a clunk, but I submit that (at least on my truck if not all 2017/2018 Ford F150 trucks) when the truck shifter is moved into Drive or Reverse, it has never made a clunk like it does when the engine is first started while the transmission is in Park. If the backlash in the ring and pinion gear were really the cause of the clunk, it would do it all the time and on every truck, since the backlash would not change once it has been set, and if the backlash is changing, then this too is a fault that Ford has failed to attempt to diagnose by actually measuring the backlash.
I have also been in contact with two other (among others) Ford F150 owners that have taken their trucks to the dealerships, and we told that the noise is NOT normal. I wont mention the names of the customer or dealerships at this time for fear of reprisal from Ford that would be aimed at said dealerships. One dealer even wanted to replace the 10 speed transmission with transmission after having found high pressure in the transmission lines at engine start when there should be no pressure. The dealer ultimately didn’t replace the transmission and the owner doesn’t know why, but its presumable that Ford instructed the dealer to not replace the transmission. The dealer did make some changes to the truck (I would prefer to not say what), but it didn’t resolve the issue. The owner has stated that she will be taking it back to the dealer for service again.
Lastly, an arbitrator cannot order a change in the vehicle’s option or its design, but he can award a customer a repurchase or replacement when a defect is found that the manufacturer is unwilling or unable to resolve. I fully believe that the arbitrator will not see this as a normal issue and will hopefully cause Ford to actually make the attempt to understand why this issue occurs.
In case you haven’t seen this, Ford told owners of Ford Focus and Ford Fiestas that their transmission problems were “normal” something they would “have to get used to” and that there was nothing more they could do to resolve the issue, and the customer would just have to live with it. A judge disagreed.
http://www.fordtransmissionsettlement.com/
From Ford’s website at: https://corporate.ford.com/careers/d...s/quality.html
“Quality is responsible for driving continuous improvement for the Ford and Lincoln brands to deliver top quality products and services to delight our customers. We achieve this through operational excellence and global processes and tools, such as Global Product Development System, Quality Operating System, New Model Launch, working with integrated teams in Manufacturing, Product Development, Purchasing, Marketing, Sales and Service, etc.”
I ask that the case not be closed, and that an arbitrator be allowed to hear the case, hear the clunk him/herself, watch the videos and see that Ford has done nothing to try to understand and resolve the issue for its owners.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, please call me if you have any questions, any time.
Rey
Junior Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
Thanks reybeast for the feedback. Looking forward to see how this all turns out. The "fall flat on its face" upshift from 3-5 and clunk also happens on my 5.0 w/ 10 speed. My dealer also noted that it was "normal" when cold after those spoke with a FSE.
Last edited by lynux3; Jun 12, 2018 at 06:15 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 66
Likes: 5
The reflash should significantly improve your shifting issues.
i spoke to a tech at my local dealer and he said all the other techs hate the 10spd, even those that own them. Problems show up in the shop and they never seem to be consistent. Very discouraging.
i spoke to a tech at my local dealer and he said all the other techs hate the 10spd, even those that own them. Problems show up in the shop and they never seem to be consistent. Very discouraging.
5 Year Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 83
Likes: 18
Finlay150, tell the service advisor to reply to whomever told him its because clutch packs A,B and D are engaged:
while those clutchpacks are engaged, the TCC solenoid isnt engaged in Park, so the torque converter would be allowed to slip and not deliver torque to the output shaft of the transmission. Per their own document, Solenoid operation chart. Also ask him why it doesnt clunk loudly when going from Park to Reverse and from Neutral to Drive if the exact same clutchpacks are engaged during those transitions??
while those clutchpacks are engaged, the TCC solenoid isnt engaged in Park, so the torque converter would be allowed to slip and not deliver torque to the output shaft of the transmission. Per their own document, Solenoid operation chart. Also ask him why it doesnt clunk loudly when going from Park to Reverse and from Neutral to Drive if the exact same clutchpacks are engaged during those transitions??
5 Year Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 133
Likes: 53
From: Marietta, GA
Finlay150, tell the service advisor to reply to whomever told him its because clutch packs A,B and D are engaged:
while those clutchpacks are engaged, the TCC solenoid isnt engaged in Park, so the torque converter would be allowed to slip and not deliver torque to the output shaft of the transmission. Per their own document, Solenoid operation chart. Also ask him why it doesnt clunk loudly when going from Park to Reverse and from Neutral to Drive if the exact same clutchpacks are engaged during those transitions??
while those clutchpacks are engaged, the TCC solenoid isnt engaged in Park, so the torque converter would be allowed to slip and not deliver torque to the output shaft of the transmission. Per their own document, Solenoid operation chart. Also ask him why it doesnt clunk loudly when going from Park to Reverse and from Neutral to Drive if the exact same clutchpacks are engaged during those transitions??
5 Year Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 133
Likes: 53
From: Marietta, GA
Response from Trans Tech:
Steve says yes, of course it's commanded off on start up other wise the engine would die, but the fact remains whether the TCC is commanded off or not there is still inevitable torque on the input shaft which is what causes the effects you are experiencing and unless/until the design is changed or updated it's still considered normal operation for these units. The converter has no bearing on this issue, the input shaft is receiving constant torque.
Steve says yes, of course it's commanded off on start up other wise the engine would die, but the fact remains whether the TCC is commanded off or not there is still inevitable torque on the input shaft which is what causes the effects you are experiencing and unless/until the design is changed or updated it's still considered normal operation for these units. The converter has no bearing on this issue, the input shaft is receiving constant torque.