Help
11-25-2014, 07:38 AM
#1
Help Determing what can be done to save new used truck
Bought a truck on craigslist. Had my mechanic look it over. Gave it a thumbs up. Had the seller get an inspection the day before I purchased. Drove great. I fixed a few minor things then went to get an alignment. Alignment shop said they could not do an alignment because the "frame was broken at steering box" I attached photos. Apparently previous owner tried to weld the spot and one other spot below the radiator support. I hope that I am not too screwed. Anyways if you guys can give me an idea of what you think it is and if its repairable by welding. I have a buddy that has a body shop and I am getting it towed today.
The alignment shop said I should call state police because there is no way it should have passed inspection a few hundred miles ago. I am contemplating it depending on how big of a pain it is to fix. The inspector passed it with the tag lights out.
Last edited by zmccart2; 11-25-2014 at 07:54 AM. Reason: More Detail Title
11-25-2014, 07:55 AM
#2
1994 F150 XLT 5.8L 2wd
Sounds like he probably knew people at the place that did the inspection, IMO. Wish I could help but I am at the very bottom of the knowledge tree when it comes to welding and structural support. Good luck.
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zmccart2 (11-25-2014)
11-25-2014, 08:37 AM
#3
This is a situation where you have been screwed over deliberately.
Sometimes things are wrong with a used truck that the seller is totally unaware of, in which case well , that's the way it goes.
In your case, the seller could not have been unaware of the problem and didn't tell you about it so he's being completely dishonest.
The folks who inspected it either didn't inspect it very well or decided to lie before telling you it was safe to drive down the road with your family and all the other families on the road at the time.
That inspector should be reported and charged before he causes a needless death - which could very well have been you. Just because it's an older truck and didn't cost $40,000 doesn't excuse him. Safe is safe, unsafe is unsafe and dead is dead.
You should contact your state ministry of transportation and have them inspect it.
Or at least contact the inspector and tell him you plan to do just that and see how fast he figures out how to get your truck fixed for you. Let your conscience be your guide on that one I guess.
The truck can be fixed of course, it's been done many times. But you shouldn't be stuck with a welded together truck when you bought it in good faith with an inspection.
If you didn't pay too too much for it maybe it would make a good donor for the truck you replace it with. Write it off as a learning experience.
If you did pay a lot you maybe should get pi**ed off and start making some noise.
Sometimes things are wrong with a used truck that the seller is totally unaware of, in which case well , that's the way it goes.
In your case, the seller could not have been unaware of the problem and didn't tell you about it so he's being completely dishonest.
The folks who inspected it either didn't inspect it very well or decided to lie before telling you it was safe to drive down the road with your family and all the other families on the road at the time.
That inspector should be reported and charged before he causes a needless death - which could very well have been you. Just because it's an older truck and didn't cost $40,000 doesn't excuse him. Safe is safe, unsafe is unsafe and dead is dead.
You should contact your state ministry of transportation and have them inspect it.
Or at least contact the inspector and tell him you plan to do just that and see how fast he figures out how to get your truck fixed for you. Let your conscience be your guide on that one I guess.
The truck can be fixed of course, it's been done many times. But you shouldn't be stuck with a welded together truck when you bought it in good faith with an inspection.
If you didn't pay too too much for it maybe it would make a good donor for the truck you replace it with. Write it off as a learning experience.
If you did pay a lot you maybe should get pi**ed off and start making some noise.
11-25-2014, 09:43 AM
#4
Chief Mystic
Ministry of Transportation? Is it 1984?
Get the BBB and the DOT on the inspection site. In some states with inspections (I only know MA, that's where I lived, and CO, where I live now), you have some rights if the site passed a failed vehicle.
As for a private sale of a used vehicle, in most states its 'as is' and you are stuck with the sale no matter what. Massachusetts, and a few other states, have 90 day Lemon laws - even from a private sale. Colorado is a cash paid sale over state. Check your State's RMV/DMV website.
Get the BBB and the DOT on the inspection site. In some states with inspections (I only know MA, that's where I lived, and CO, where I live now), you have some rights if the site passed a failed vehicle.
As for a private sale of a used vehicle, in most states its 'as is' and you are stuck with the sale no matter what. Massachusetts, and a few other states, have 90 day Lemon laws - even from a private sale. Colorado is a cash paid sale over state. Check your State's RMV/DMV website.
11-25-2014, 10:54 AM
#6
Do you guys recognize the areas so I can figure out what to call the concerning spots? Just trying to get my facts together for when I hear back from the Virginia State Police inspector. I also reached out to the shop and let them know. The steering box is right above the small separation. The larger piece that has separated comes off a piece that I believe holds the steering linkage in place.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
11-25-2014, 01:20 PM
#7
I should have said "Eh"
It's a little hard to tell what exactly is cracked there (and it looks like there's maybe another crack that hasn't been welded).
One spot looks like the frame rail near the front mount ?
Another looks like the main crossmember that has the motor mounts and suspension pivot mounts. ?
And the other looks like the frame rail at the steering box ?
Frames can be fixed of course. But it's a little more fussy than dragging out the welder and running a quick bead. The frame has to be properly prepared, ground off, the crack ground to an inverted V and welded usually both sides. In high stress areas like around the steering box and the main crossmember, a stiffener should be fish - plated on to ensure it doesn't recur. All without creating too much heat because that can change the tensile strength of the steel, which as strong as it is, is designed with a certain amount of flex built right in.
All that wasn't done which makes the resulting "patch" little more than a bandaid and leaves you in the position of having to wonder if your frame is going to snap at 60 mph.
The mechanic should never have let that truck leave his shop in that condition, and to pronounce it safe to drive and not even point it out that the frame of the truck is an accident waiting to happen is unconscionable.
If you can't trust the guy with the license to warn you, who can you trust ? And if the guy with the license can't be trusted on an issue like a cracked frame, he shouldn't have a license (in my opinion anyway).
Like I said, you can get that frame fixed, it's a lot of work (and money) to have it done right, but it can be done. But I'm assuming that you thought you were buying a truck with a solid frame to build on.
There is "buyer beware" to consider but (again in my opinion) when the frame of the truck is cracked, and you know about it and don't say anything I think that's a total misrepresentation of the truck and in my book that's about as fraudulent as it gets.
And the mechanic - well... he's either in on it or he's incompetent, but either way I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about putting him through the wringer on that one.
I suppose it sounds like I'm getting a little worked up on this one but I really hate to see this kind of thing happen, especially when someone callously endangers someone else's safety so they won't lose a couple thousand bucks on their old broken truck.
Best thing would be if you could just get your money back and go shopping again but either way, don't be afraid to stick it to 'em.
It's a little hard to tell what exactly is cracked there (and it looks like there's maybe another crack that hasn't been welded).
One spot looks like the frame rail near the front mount ?
Another looks like the main crossmember that has the motor mounts and suspension pivot mounts. ?
And the other looks like the frame rail at the steering box ?
Frames can be fixed of course. But it's a little more fussy than dragging out the welder and running a quick bead. The frame has to be properly prepared, ground off, the crack ground to an inverted V and welded usually both sides. In high stress areas like around the steering box and the main crossmember, a stiffener should be fish - plated on to ensure it doesn't recur. All without creating too much heat because that can change the tensile strength of the steel, which as strong as it is, is designed with a certain amount of flex built right in.
All that wasn't done which makes the resulting "patch" little more than a bandaid and leaves you in the position of having to wonder if your frame is going to snap at 60 mph.
The mechanic should never have let that truck leave his shop in that condition, and to pronounce it safe to drive and not even point it out that the frame of the truck is an accident waiting to happen is unconscionable.
If you can't trust the guy with the license to warn you, who can you trust ? And if the guy with the license can't be trusted on an issue like a cracked frame, he shouldn't have a license (in my opinion anyway).
Like I said, you can get that frame fixed, it's a lot of work (and money) to have it done right, but it can be done. But I'm assuming that you thought you were buying a truck with a solid frame to build on.
There is "buyer beware" to consider but (again in my opinion) when the frame of the truck is cracked, and you know about it and don't say anything I think that's a total misrepresentation of the truck and in my book that's about as fraudulent as it gets.
And the mechanic - well... he's either in on it or he's incompetent, but either way I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about putting him through the wringer on that one.
I suppose it sounds like I'm getting a little worked up on this one but I really hate to see this kind of thing happen, especially when someone callously endangers someone else's safety so they won't lose a couple thousand bucks on their old broken truck.
Best thing would be if you could just get your money back and go shopping again but either way, don't be afraid to stick it to 'em.
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11-26-2014, 02:25 PM
#8
Same thing happened to me with my truck when I bought it, minus any inspection. Didn't see the damage when I went to buy it, but a few weeks later I was working underneath and saw where the PO had welded some bull**** scrap metal in place. Okay well... I didn't have the guy's address anymore or I might have had to go pay him a visit, but I did have a welder and some REAL metal that I could use to reinforce the area.
So I cut the hack-job repair out, welded in some solid bar stock, and took it off-road. A few 45 degree ditch crossings, up and down some hills, hit a couple of ruts at speed... all good!
Just letting know it can be fixed.
So I cut the hack-job repair out, welded in some solid bar stock, and took it off-road. A few 45 degree ditch crossings, up and down some hills, hit a couple of ruts at speed... all good!
Just letting know it can be fixed.
12-01-2014, 12:16 PM
#9
Well, I spoke to the shop that passed it for inspection and they recommended meeting them at the shop with the truck and a state police inspector. They said first thing the state official would do is pull the sticker off. I really did not want to go thru all the hassle since I knew the windshield technically needs replaced and there is an exhaust leak that would be easy fix but I have not completed it yet. I know the shop would have said "well those problems occurred after we inspected it. There is no way we would have passed it had those problems been there when we inspected it" My word versus theirs and possibly failing inspection and having to spend more money and have it perfect to pass inspection. I have a inspector that is fairly lenient on anything that is not truly a safety matter. So I went ahead and got it welded by a buddy. I will keep an eye on it. The bracket that has the steering linkage on it looks really solid now. The cross member weld looks decent. He got the best weld he could on it without taking apart the entire front end. My buddy charged me a 12 pack. Driven the truck about 75 miles so far hit a few rough spots on roads and no signs of cracks. I plan on keeping a close eye on it for the remainder of the life of the truck. If the problem presents itself again I will find someone who will fishplate and do everything possible to repair it/knows more welding techniques as opposed to just a nice looking weld on a crack. Hoping for the best. Like you all said "a learning experience" don't always trust mechanics and inspectors and with my own eyes I can be more thorough.
Thanks for the confidence dixie460. I know some feel there is liability with welding a frame but for me I wont have a truck for a while because my wife would kill me if I spent 3k and then had to sell it for 1000 bucks weeks later. So welding the frame is the best alternative and I will just hope it holds up.
Thanks for the confidence dixie460. I know some feel there is liability with welding a frame but for me I wont have a truck for a while because my wife would kill me if I spent 3k and then had to sell it for 1000 bucks weeks later. So welding the frame is the best alternative and I will just hope it holds up.
12-01-2014, 02:10 PM
#10
Good, glad you got it fixed. Yeah I know some people say not to weld on a frame but I don't see why not, it's just plain steel. People build homemade vehicles all the time and those are welded together so I say 