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Engine issues...need some help

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Old Dec 15, 2014 | 08:18 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Chris_1
??? You've got power to the coil, the coil tested good, the icm tested good and you've got a pip signal but still no spark ? Doesn't make sense.
Wires, cap or rotor ??
By the way, saw a picture of your truck in another post. Way too good looking of a truck to not be running.
Thanks, and yes...you are correct. I've got power coming into the coil and nothing coming out. I figured it was bad ignition coil, but I took it into the parts store and they bench tested it and said it was good.

Actually, I tested the coil the other day when it was still running a little bit...just dying sporadically. Maybe I should re-test that. I've re-tested a bunch of stuff, but I don't believe I've re-tested power to and from the ignition coil since I lost spark altogether. In other words, it went from an intermittent problem to a regular one. So I'll go back to basics and start testing everything again. What gets me is that different issues keep popping up. The battery drain issue is icing on the cake. The truck sat here for a month without being driven and the battery was still charged when I got home. Now, after dealing with these problems, it has drain issue. I've got the battery unhooked and a charger on it now. I'm going to let it charge slow overnight again, then hook up the battery. Leave it for an hour or so and then check to see if it still has a draw. I had this issue earlier this year and it turned out to be the voltage regulator. The way I found it was I just happened to put my hand on the alternator and could feel a little heat coming off of it. I ended up putting a new alternator on it, because the bearings were going bad as well. So, new alternator, ignition switch, solenoid, starter, tps. Oh, and it had a good tune-up last year. Probably due for another one soon, but the spark issue is a complete loss of spark from the coil...not downstream from the wires/cap/rotor/plugs. I guess it's possible that the wire from the coil to the cap is bad, but I've never had that happen. I have new wires, plugs, cap, and rotor...so maybe I'll throw in the new coil wire just to make sure. Stranger things have happened.
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Old Dec 15, 2014 | 09:49 PM
  #32  
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That test page I sent you also has links for the first 4 pages. Maybe start at page 1 and work through it step by step. Guy who wrote it seems to know what he's talking about. He also mentions that the grey ICM is for push start and the black one is for automatic.
Looking back through the posts, you've got an auto and a grey one. I've got 2 autos with black ones. Could it be that simple ?

Last edited by Chris_1; Dec 15, 2014 at 09:55 PM.
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Old Dec 15, 2014 | 11:08 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Chris_1
That test page I sent you also has links for the first 4 pages. Maybe start at page 1 and work through it step by step. Guy who wrote it seems to know what he's talking about. He also mentions that the grey ICM is for push start and the black one is for automatic.
Looking back through the posts, you've got an auto and a grey one. I've got 2 autos with black ones. Could it be that simple ?
Well, you could be correct. I did go through the previous pages for that page you sent. I had basically done all of the tests prior to the one you posted. I purchased a replacement grey icm the other day, before I tested it. I was out running around and figured I would purchase one just in case...you know, save me a trip. I didn't need it, but I still have it. Maybe I'll swap it for the black one. I doubt that's the problem, though. It has been running good with the grey one prior to this. Worth a shot, though!
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 11:06 AM
  #34  
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Ok, I re-checked for parasitic draw this morning but used the amp setting on my meter instead of voltage. It is barely pulling any amps (around .12 or so) so I guess I was mistaken. When I check voltage between the positive battery cable and the battery post, it shows 12+ volts. I had everything turned off and the fuse pulled for the radio, so I didn't think it should show anything.

Anyway, still no spark and I tried changing the wire from the ignition coil to the distributor cap. Didn't help. When I checked for pip signal yesterday, it was pulsing, so I figure that it is working properly. According to the test info posted by Chris 1, that would most likely mean that the icm is bad. I'm going to replace it this evening, even though the parts store said it passed their bench test. Of course, the starter also passed a bench test and mine turned out to be bad! Regardless, it appears my truck may have the wrong icm installed anyway, so I figure it should be replaced even if it appears to be functioning ok.

Reading up on how this ignition system works, I know the distributor pick-up (pip sensor) completes a circuit between the icm and the ignition coil. The icm takes the pip signal and determines when to ground the ignition coil so that it fires. There is power to the coil with this key on. The coil was also bench tested at the parts store and by me using the multimeter. Everything was within spec, so I'm pretty certain it's ok. The pip signal pulses, so that appears to be doing its job. The only other factor would be the icm, which I cannot test directly...only by eliminating other things. So I'm going to replace it under the assumption that the parts store can't be trusted to test anything properly lol! I'll let you know how it goes this evening. Thanks for all the help, guys!
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 11:40 AM
  #35  
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The reason the battery power wire shows 12v is because the multimeter is grounded (black) and when you probe the wire/terminal and ground probe on the multimeter the circuit is completed.
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 11:41 AM
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What color is your ICM? I know they come in gray and black colors, and they won't interchange and work right. I'm not for sure what color yours should be, so I won't say. I have read some parts stores list the wrong color for the application.
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fltdriver
The reason the battery power wire shows 12v is because the multimeter is grounded (black) and when you probe the wire/terminal and ground probe on the multimeter the circuit is completed.
I never touched any part of the meter to ground. I removed the positive terminal off the battery and touched the probe end to the battery + post and the alligator (ground) clip to the positive cable. The positive side should not be able to create a ground unless there is something within the car that is creating a completed circuit...such as a door open, dome light on, headlights on, radio power. I've always removed the radio fuse when doing this test because they normally have a constant draw for the memory...even with the key out of the ignition.

But I agree that doing the test that way is a little more difficult on newer vehicles, because there are many different parts of the electrical system that remain active with the key out and everything turned off. This truck is old and simple enough, electronically, that I wouldn't think it would be hard to perform the test that way. Maybe I'm just overlooking something, though.
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 01:03 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 88xlt
What color is your ICM? I know they come in gray and black colors, and they won't interchange and work right. I'm not for sure what color yours should be, so I won't say. I have read some parts stores list the wrong color for the application.
My icm is grey, but according to everything I've read (and the guy at the parts store) mine should be black. It may be good to know that this truck had a persistent no-start issue in the past. It was parked for a couple years by a previous owner because they couldn't figure out the problem. I'm not exactly sure what the symptoms were, but It made it's way through a few different shops before one of them finally figured out the pcm was bad. In the process, many of the ignition parts had been changed...so someone could have easily put the wrong icm in it.

I just went though the entire test list Chris 1 posted. I think before, I skipped the test for the ignition coil for a couple reasons. I had already followed the test procedure listed in the Haynes book, which instructed to test ohm resistance. I also had removed the coil and taken it to the parts store, where they tested it. I believe they also did the same resistance test. I never was a big fan of doing these tests because, to me at least, it's not always definitive as to whether the part is functioning correctly...much like the bench test the parts store did on my starter, which turned out to be wrong. Anyway, I just followed the test procedure for the ignition coil...the test that Chris 1 posted for me. I put a test light (probe end) in the coil's plug connection...right side. I attached the alligator clip to the positive battery post. I had the wife crank the starter while I watched the test light. The test light should flash on and off while cranking. Well, mine didn't...or at least, it barely flashed at all. I could just barely see a small spark in the test light as it cranked. Here's what the test procedure says about a no-flash result:

If the test light still does not flash on and off... this usually indicates one of two things: either the ignition control module is BAD or the PIP sensor is BAD...

I had already tested the pip signal yesterday and i got a good flashing on/off signal from the pip signal wire. So I'm going to presume the icm isn't working correctly. I'll replace it this evening and see what happens. Stay tuned!
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 05:11 PM
  #39  
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Out of curiousity I went to the rock auto parts site to try and see what color ICM you should have. I dialed in your 1992 with the 5.0, they show a number of brands and also Motorcraft. Some of the brands are black and some gray. They show 2 Motorcraft, both are gray, they explain the distributor mounted ICM has an aluminum heat sink where it would mount against the distributor. The remote mounted one, which you would need, would not have this aluminum heat sink. Hope this helps you some.
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Old Dec 16, 2014 | 07:26 PM
  #40  
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Ok. I replaced with a black icm. Still getting signal from pick-up, but no signal out of the icm. Went ahead and got a grey one. This time, took the original grey one to them and they looked it up using the part number on it. It was the same grey one I had returned earlier. So I put a new grey one on. Still no signal from the icm. I'm at a loss here. Everything tests good except signal FROM the icm to the coil. Still have a no-spark issue.

And my truck has a heat sink mounted to the fender and the icm mounts to that.
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