94 XLT brake system/bleeding process
05-29-2018, 07:00 PM
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94 XLT brake system/bleeding process
Hello I have a brake system question for my 94 F150 XLT 2WD 5.0L. I’m not a mechanic but I’m fairly handy with some decent knowledge and tools and a reasonably fast learner so here you go.
I went to change my front brakes and my passenger side rotor was in pretty bad shape and the driver side wasn’t much better so I decided to replace both as well as the bearings and seal in each of them. Neither of the calipers would compress with a c clamp so I’ve replaced those also. I’ve never bled brakes before except for pushing the pedal when someone said to, but I know I have to and have studied up on it. I’m a one man band at the moment so I went and bought the pneumatic brake bleeding set at Harbor Freight.
And this is where I’d like your opinions as to where to move forward.
I had planned to go around the horn with the brake bleeding process but now I’m not sure if starting at the rear is required at this point. I understand some systems the front and rear are separate? Plus I’m not sure what I might find when I get to the rear and I’d like to tidy up everything I can from the front first if possible in case I have to retrace anything. So then should I start bleeding the front since that’s where all the changes have been done?
Also I have a little transfer pump and I was gonna remove most of the old brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir before I started, but the float in the reservoir is preventing this and it is still nearly half full and I can’t see any other access. Is there an easy way to remove the float or should I just trust the bleeding process to remove the old fluid?
I bought a quart of DOT 3 brake fluid is this gonna be enough to do the whole bleeding process with the pneumatic setup?
Just so you know, the brake pedal has zero resistance at this point.
Both the red brake light and the yellow ABS light are on at the instrument panel, but the fluid level is low due to ignorance when swapping the calipers
So at least for now I’ll assume it’s because of low fluid.
This is not my daily driver so I’m not in a hurry or a rush and I want to do what’s necessary and correct. But it is parked in my daily driver spot so I am in that kinda hurry.
Whatever advice you guys can give me as to what to do moving forward will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post. Just trying to be as detailed as possible without going overboard.
Thanks in advance, Chris
I went to change my front brakes and my passenger side rotor was in pretty bad shape and the driver side wasn’t much better so I decided to replace both as well as the bearings and seal in each of them. Neither of the calipers would compress with a c clamp so I’ve replaced those also. I’ve never bled brakes before except for pushing the pedal when someone said to, but I know I have to and have studied up on it. I’m a one man band at the moment so I went and bought the pneumatic brake bleeding set at Harbor Freight.
And this is where I’d like your opinions as to where to move forward.
I had planned to go around the horn with the brake bleeding process but now I’m not sure if starting at the rear is required at this point. I understand some systems the front and rear are separate? Plus I’m not sure what I might find when I get to the rear and I’d like to tidy up everything I can from the front first if possible in case I have to retrace anything. So then should I start bleeding the front since that’s where all the changes have been done?
Also I have a little transfer pump and I was gonna remove most of the old brake fluid from the master cylinder reservoir before I started, but the float in the reservoir is preventing this and it is still nearly half full and I can’t see any other access. Is there an easy way to remove the float or should I just trust the bleeding process to remove the old fluid?
I bought a quart of DOT 3 brake fluid is this gonna be enough to do the whole bleeding process with the pneumatic setup?
Just so you know, the brake pedal has zero resistance at this point.
Both the red brake light and the yellow ABS light are on at the instrument panel, but the fluid level is low due to ignorance when swapping the calipers
So at least for now I’ll assume it’s because of low fluid.This is not my daily driver so I’m not in a hurry or a rush and I want to do what’s necessary and correct. But it is parked in my daily driver spot so I am in that kinda hurry.
Whatever advice you guys can give me as to what to do moving forward will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post. Just trying to be as detailed as possible without going overboard.
Thanks in advance, Chris
05-30-2018, 07:30 AM
#2
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The system is split front to rear, so 2 compartments in the master cylinder, but they are filled through a common hole. Normally a full bleed is started at the furthest point, meaning right rear, and ending at the nearest, left front. With a power bleeder you may well burn through a quart, very important to never let the master cylinder go dry during the process, & introduce more air. I'd just bleed it properly and forget about pulling the float. With it being 24 years old it could stand to have every drop of fluid replaced, and a bit run through to clean things up. A lot of European car makers insist that a brake fluid flush / replacement is normal biannual maintenance. BtW I know a lot of folks don't do this, but when pushing the pistons in a caliper back in with a C clamp, the bleeder should be cracked open a bit. that is a lot easier on you, and the system than forcing the fluid back into the master cylinder. Also, I usually protect the seals by using the old brake pad between the clamp and the piston
05-30-2018, 08:30 AM
#3
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Eric is right on.
One thing I do that some folk don't, is to let gravity bleed the system to start with. Before the brake pump session. In other words, open all bleeder valves and let gravity pull the fluid though the system. Let the master cylinder drain but don't go dry. Once you get a nice clean flow, close the bleeders. Then start the pump session. And of course, this is a good system flush.
Chap.
One thing I do that some folk don't, is to let gravity bleed the system to start with. Before the brake pump session. In other words, open all bleeder valves and let gravity pull the fluid though the system. Let the master cylinder drain but don't go dry. Once you get a nice clean flow, close the bleeders. Then start the pump session. And of course, this is a good system flush.
Chap.
05-31-2018, 06:29 PM
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Thanks Eric and Chap for the advice it helped a lot. Got the brakes bled last night and they did well testing them today. They don’t stop on a dime but they do stop on a nickel and 5 pennies. The only problems I ran into were with the bleeders. The rear ones that probably have never been cracked, opened up no problem with a 3/8” wrench. The brand new ones were the problem. Couldn’t get them to budge with a 3/8” or 10mm. It felt sloppy trying to get them open and I think I rounded the heads off. I ended up using a pair of vise grips to get em open and closed. And that interfered with my hose attachment for the bleeder. So I had to take the hose off before I closed it. What is the correct tool for the bleeders? And why aren’t they like the rear ones? And what’s up with the bleeder being directly in line with the brake line? Wondering if I attached the brake line on correctly when I put on the new calipers. It looked like only one way made sense. But I only had about a half an inch to attach the power bleeder attachment.
I pumped the pedal a few times and they got tighter, but were spongy and I could hear a little air coming from the pedal area. And that’s how they still are. And they did well like I said driving to the store today. Should I bleed them again?
I ended up using a little over a quart of brake fluid. And the ABS and brake lights went away when the fluid was at the correct level.
Thanks again, Chris
I pumped the pedal a few times and they got tighter, but were spongy and I could hear a little air coming from the pedal area. And that’s how they still are. And they did well like I said driving to the store today. Should I bleed them again?
I ended up using a little over a quart of brake fluid. And the ABS and brake lights went away when the fluid was at the correct level.
Thanks again, Chris
05-31-2018, 07:29 PM
#5
Member
Hey ctc,
If your pedal feels bit mushy, then there is air in the system. Even if the brakes stop reasonably well. With the vehicle running, hold your foot on the brake pedal with a bit of pressure on it and see if the pedal fades toward the floor. Try that in park and again in drive. If the pedal stays put, you're probably good to go. If it feels like it fades, you need to bleed some more. The air you hear is most likely from the booster and not air from the hydraulics. Usually when I bleed, I'll go around the horn 4 to 5 times to get a rock solid pedal with no spongy feel. May not need to go that many times but I do it just because. Plus, it gives the Mrs. a good leg work out on the pedal and besides, DOT3 brake fluid is cheap.
There are various bleeder tools out there. These are the style that I've used on every car I've owned in the last 40 years .
https://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/image/spin_prod_626505101?hei=1000&wid=1000&op_sharpen=1 c
Safety First, Safety Fast. Especially with brakes!
Chap
If your pedal feels bit mushy, then there is air in the system. Even if the brakes stop reasonably well. With the vehicle running, hold your foot on the brake pedal with a bit of pressure on it and see if the pedal fades toward the floor. Try that in park and again in drive. If the pedal stays put, you're probably good to go. If it feels like it fades, you need to bleed some more. The air you hear is most likely from the booster and not air from the hydraulics. Usually when I bleed, I'll go around the horn 4 to 5 times to get a rock solid pedal with no spongy feel. May not need to go that many times but I do it just because. Plus, it gives the Mrs. a good leg work out on the pedal and besides, DOT3 brake fluid is cheap.
There are various bleeder tools out there. These are the style that I've used on every car I've owned in the last 40 years .
https://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/image/spin_prod_626505101?hei=1000&wid=1000&op_sharpen=1 c
Safety First, Safety Fast. Especially with brakes!
Chap
06-04-2018, 11:08 PM
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Thanks Chap. I did as you suggested and I guess I’m good to go. I didn’t feel any fade at all so I’m gonna call it good for now. I think I will go back and do it again soon, because I want the rock solid pedal like you mentioned. It is a little mushy but stops well. The main thing is I can use my truck so I can juggle more projects now. Thanks again, Chris
06-04-2018, 11:14 PM
#7
Senior Member
Over the years, I've found bleeding brakes is just one of those things that has to be done a couple of times to get it all. Maybe if you use a pro type pressure bleeder, it can be done in one go, but for practical purposes it usually comes down to; get it really safe to drive, drive it, so all the nooks and crannies can give up their air bubbles, go back and bleed it again.
