EB Horsepower with BIGGER turbos!!!
01-06-2012, 09:45 AM
#24
FORD lifer
I'm predicting that the hot-rodders and programmers will end up with a reliable 450 rwhp that idles, runs clean, and lasts if you give them time.
01-06-2012, 10:12 AM
#26
Official Member: Vast RWC
The ECM closing the throttle plate would actuate the blow off valve to prevent impeller damage in turn reducing boost also (this is probably the sugre/hiccup some people complain of). This ECM closing the throttle plate is precisely the nanny crap I'm talking about that needs to be tuned out IMO. THEN it's up to the owner/ tuner (if it's controlled by the ECM also) to set the waste gate actuator to what amount of boost they want it to open at and thus stop creating more boost.
I want a tuner that doesn't fool with the tranny and all that like the bully dog. I just want the nannies to stop limiting my power output. Seems like that would be a simpler tune to do and create much more and much smoother power. And that's a big deal to me, my engine runs incredibly smooth and I don't want that to change.
I truly think that this motor would be an absolute beast if the ECM was reprogrammed to just stop intervening with the throttle plate and just stick to fueling how much air is fed in, given that the stock injectors can fuel 15-20 lbs of boost. I don't know near as much about direct injection as I do about turbo chargers but I would think that the pressure that these injectors have fuel fed to them that they could supply enough for quite the increase in HP
I want a tuner that doesn't fool with the tranny and all that like the bully dog. I just want the nannies to stop limiting my power output. Seems like that would be a simpler tune to do and create much more and much smoother power. And that's a big deal to me, my engine runs incredibly smooth and I don't want that to change.
I truly think that this motor would be an absolute beast if the ECM was reprogrammed to just stop intervening with the throttle plate and just stick to fueling how much air is fed in, given that the stock injectors can fuel 15-20 lbs of boost. I don't know near as much about direct injection as I do about turbo chargers but I would think that the pressure that these injectors have fuel fed to them that they could supply enough for quite the increase in HP
^^^^ exactly.... what is controlling boost is the blow off valves...
First to come up with a tune that keeps them closed and allows full boost and 100% throttle position to redline will have a winner.
Last edited by gimmie11s; 01-06-2012 at 10:14 AM.
01-06-2012, 11:36 AM
#27
Senior Member
bubbabud
01-06-2012, 12:37 PM
#28
Official Member: Vast RWC
Disagree 100%
What bleeds boost pressure is one of two things (or both):
-wastegates
-blow off valves
Even if the throttle plate was only open 20% whatever psi has already been generated in the upper intercooler pipe (charge pipe) WILL be in the intake manifold.... it may not hit the manifold immediately--which is where your theory with the throttle comes into play-- but it WILL hit the manifold at full charge pipe pressure assuming the plate stays open at 20%. The only way charge pipe pressure is relieved is the bypass valves... there simply is no other place for the air to go unless into the intake manifold.
The fact is these blow off valves play quite a big role in regulating boost on these trucks.
The ECM isnt magic... it still needs hardware (blow offs and wastegates) to do the jobs (boost regulation) it requires.
Your comment about the ECM is the only piece that can "allow" more boost is also just not correct.
Like i stated in an earlier post, anyone could get their EB to generate 20 or more PSI TODAY if they wanted to irregardless of what the ECU "wants."
Would that be wise? Hell no as you DO need the ECU to compensate for said extra boost psi and at this point we have no ability to do this.
Last edited by gimmie11s; 01-06-2012 at 12:45 PM.
01-06-2012, 12:48 PM
#29
FX4 SCrew TT'd V6
Disagree 100%
What bleeds boost pressure is one of two things (or both):
-wastegates
-blow off valves
Even if the throttle plate was only open 20% whatever psi has already been generated in the upper intercooler pipe (charge pipe) WILL be in the intake manifold.... it may not hit the manifold immediately--which is where your theory with the throttle comes into play-- but it WILL hit the manifold at full charge pipe pressure assuming the plate stays open at 20%. The only way charge pipe pressure is relieved is the bypass valves... there simply is no other place for the air to go unless into the intake manifold.
The fact is these blow off valves play quite a big role in regulating boost on these trucks.
The ECM isnt magic... it still needs hardware (blow offs and wastegates) to do the jobs (boost regulation) it requires.
Your comment about the ECM is the only piece that can "allow" more boost is also just not correct.
Like i stated in an earlier post, anyone could get their EB to generate 20 or more PSI TODAY if they wanted to irregardless of what the ECU "wants."
Would that be wise? Hell no as you DO need the ECU to compensate for said extra boost psi and at this point we have no ability to do this.
What bleeds boost pressure is one of two things (or both):
-wastegates
-blow off valves
Even if the throttle plate was only open 20% whatever psi has already been generated in the upper intercooler pipe (charge pipe) WILL be in the intake manifold.... it may not hit the manifold immediately--which is where your theory with the throttle comes into play-- but it WILL hit the manifold at full charge pipe pressure assuming the plate stays open at 20%. The only way charge pipe pressure is relieved is the bypass valves... there simply is no other place for the air to go unless into the intake manifold.
The fact is these blow off valves play quite a big role in regulating boost on these trucks.
The ECM isnt magic... it still needs hardware (blow offs and wastegates) to do the jobs (boost regulation) it requires.
Your comment about the ECM is the only piece that can "allow" more boost is also just not correct.
Like i stated in an earlier post, anyone could get their EB to generate 20 or more PSI TODAY if they wanted to irregardless of what the ECU "wants."
Would that be wise? Hell no as you DO need the ECU to compensate for said extra boost psi and at this point we have no ability to do this.
You are not correct. You can have all the pressure in the world after the turbos, but if you have a obstruction (nozzle) in between it and the engine, your pressure will not be equal on both sides. Your engine is pulling air into it with the cylinders going up and down, this consumption of air is going to reduce the pressure after the obstruction (throttle blade in this case) most likely (the opening size and consumption of air by the motor will determine the pressure difference). If the area after the throttle blade didn't go anywhere, then yes, you theory of equal pressure would be true (equilibrium), but that is not the case.
But I do agree with the TB not controlling the boost pressure to a level dictated by the ECM, the bypass valve and wastegate will dictate that.
Last edited by mrpositraction; 01-06-2012 at 12:52 PM.
01-06-2012, 12:54 PM
#30
Official Member: Vast RWC
You are not correct. You can have all the pressure in the world after the turbos, but if you have a obstruction (nozzle) in between it and the engine, your pressure will not be equal on both sides. Your engine is pulling air into it with the cylinders going up and down, this consumption of air is going to reduce the pressure after the obstruction (throttle blade in this case) most likely (the opening size and consumption of air by the motor will determine the pressure difference). If the area after the throttle blade didn't go anywhere, then yes, you theory of equal pressure would be true (equilibrium), but that is not the case.
That is an excellent point .... seems stupid that i didnt realize the obvious fact that the engine is consuming air behind the throttle plate.
However, IMO i dont think it eats enough air to play that big of a role in boost regulation.... especially considering just how fast these tiny turbos can create 15 psi.... there is just no way the engine can make all that air dissappear in fractions of a second.......... especially with the turbos still spooling and producing 15 (or whatever number) psi.
I stand by my opinion that the throttle plate can only regulate maybe HOW FAST the manifold is charged up to any given PSI, but it cannot make said boost pressure drop.
If you think about it... what good would a turbo system be if the engine could gobble up MORE AIRE than the turbo could produce at full boost?--which is basically what would have to happen for the engine to be able to reduce boost pressure.
Last edited by gimmie11s; 01-06-2012 at 12:58 PM.