towing with MTP tunes
03-21-2015, 03:35 PM
#11
Folks - I STRONGLY suggest that you CONFIRM your tunes are tow-safe for the proposed load yer going to be towing.
None of the folks who've responded so far wrote any of your tunes - so talk to the folks who DID. Do NOT assume, Aight?
I run separate tow-specific and perf-only tuning. Which is what I recommend.
MGD
03-21-2015, 04:07 PM
#12
Looking for a Henway.
iTrader: (2)
You can - and should - order tow-specific tuning - in as high an octane as you have access to.
Folks - I STRONGLY suggest that you CONFIRM your tunes are tow-safe for the proposed load yer going to be towing.
None of the folks who've responded so far wrote any of your tunes - so talk to the folks who DID. Do NOT assume, Aight?
I run separate tow-specific and perf-only tuning. Which is what I recommend.
MGD
Folks - I STRONGLY suggest that you CONFIRM your tunes are tow-safe for the proposed load yer going to be towing.
None of the folks who've responded so far wrote any of your tunes - so talk to the folks who DID. Do NOT assume, Aight?
I run separate tow-specific and perf-only tuning. Which is what I recommend.
MGD
Call whoever did your tune and ask them, or as said, send an e-mail to Mike @ MPT, real helpful guy, even if you did not buy your tunes from MPT.
03-21-2015, 04:16 PM
#13
Complete Asshat
You can - and should - order tow-specific tuning - in as high an octane as you have access to.
Folks - I STRONGLY suggest that you CONFIRM your tunes are tow-safe for the proposed load yer going to be towing.
None of the folks who've responded so far wrote any of your tunes - so talk to the folks who DID. Do NOT assume, Aight?
I run separate tow-specific and perf-only tuning. Which is what I recommend.
MGD
Folks - I STRONGLY suggest that you CONFIRM your tunes are tow-safe for the proposed load yer going to be towing.
None of the folks who've responded so far wrote any of your tunes - so talk to the folks who DID. Do NOT assume, Aight?
I run separate tow-specific and perf-only tuning. Which is what I recommend.
MGD
03-21-2015, 04:30 PM
#14
Tow-specific tunes:
1. run slightly richer - to keep EGT's under control
2. typically shift sooner - easier on the drivetrain
3. shift slightly softer - to ease driveline shock
4. lock the converter sooner - lower trans fluid temps
5. hold the converter locked longer - lower trans fluid temps
... and more .... ( platform-specific e.g. VCT/VVT, etc )
You can indeed specify a tow/perf tune - but I consider them to be compromises, personally. And some less extreme perf tunes may have a small tow-limit ( say less than 2,000-2,500 lbs. ) It's all up to the calibrator's discretion - which is why I repeatedly stress that folks check with their tunin' feller.
However - if you tow heavy and the tune is not optimized for same (a max perf tune, for example), the aggregate corollaries of those characteristics listed above can cause yer engine / drivetrain some grief. Elevated/unsafe EGT's, needless driveline shock from overly firm shifts, excessive trans fluid temps from the unlocked converter - which is busy doing it's perf job of torque multiplication.
You can indeed adopt a tow-specific tune (especially a high-octane one) to serve as an excllent all-around daily driver. I typically default to my high-octane tow-specific MPT calibration - it's that good. But that's because I simply do not favour frequent reflashes just for the sake of a tune-de-jour experience.
MGD
PS - I'll just say 'yer welcome' now, as I suspect - again true to AH form - you won't bother with responding.
Last edited by MGD; 03-21-2015 at 07:24 PM.
The following users liked this post:
2thousand5.4 (03-22-2015)
03-23-2015, 11:31 PM
#15
Complete Asshat
No need to be acerbic ... (but I reckon yer just being the asshat ye claim to be, lol)
Tow-specific tunes:
1. run slightly richer - to keep EGT's under control
2. typically shift sooner - easier on the drivetrain
3. shift slightly softer - to ease driveline shock
4. lock the converter sooner - lower trans fluid temps
5. hold the converter locked longer - lower trans fluid temps
... and more .... ( platform-specific e.g. VCT/VVT, etc )
You can indeed specify a tow/perf tune - but I consider them to be compromises, personally. And some less extreme perf tunes may have a small tow-limit ( say less than 2,000-2,500 lbs. ) It's all up to the calibrator's discretion - which is why I repeatedly stress that folks check with their tunin' feller.
However - if you tow heavy and the tune is not optimized for same (a max perf tune, for example), the aggregate corollaries of those characteristics listed above can cause yer engine / drivetrain some grief. Elevated/unsafe EGT's, needless driveline shock from overly firm shifts, excessive trans fluid temps from the unlocked converter - which is busy doing it's perf job of torque multiplication.
You can indeed adopt a tow-specific tune (especially a high-octane one) to serve as an excllent all-around daily driver. I typically default to my high-octane tow-specific MPT calibration - it's that good. But that's because I simply do not favour frequent reflashes just for the sake of a tune-de-jour experience.
MGD
PS - I'll just say 'yer welcome' now, as I suspect - again true to AH form - you won't bother with responding.
Tow-specific tunes:
1. run slightly richer - to keep EGT's under control
2. typically shift sooner - easier on the drivetrain
3. shift slightly softer - to ease driveline shock
4. lock the converter sooner - lower trans fluid temps
5. hold the converter locked longer - lower trans fluid temps
... and more .... ( platform-specific e.g. VCT/VVT, etc )
You can indeed specify a tow/perf tune - but I consider them to be compromises, personally. And some less extreme perf tunes may have a small tow-limit ( say less than 2,000-2,500 lbs. ) It's all up to the calibrator's discretion - which is why I repeatedly stress that folks check with their tunin' feller.
However - if you tow heavy and the tune is not optimized for same (a max perf tune, for example), the aggregate corollaries of those characteristics listed above can cause yer engine / drivetrain some grief. Elevated/unsafe EGT's, needless driveline shock from overly firm shifts, excessive trans fluid temps from the unlocked converter - which is busy doing it's perf job of torque multiplication.
You can indeed adopt a tow-specific tune (especially a high-octane one) to serve as an excllent all-around daily driver. I typically default to my high-octane tow-specific MPT calibration - it's that good. But that's because I simply do not favour frequent reflashes just for the sake of a tune-de-jour experience.
MGD
PS - I'll just say 'yer welcome' now, as I suspect - again true to AH form - you won't bother with responding.
Point one of using more fuel is a given. It's hard to make power by reducing fuel. But points 2,3,4,5 are all transmission related. You aren't making more power by changing those setting. Managing it slightly better to be easier on components sure (of which points 2 and 3 I don't agree with. You want later and slightly firmer shifts too; these engines make there power in the 2500 rpm and up band. No point in dropping it down to 1200 rpm just so it can struggle to get back into its powerband. And soft shifts are super hard on transmission clutches. I'm not saying go 50% firmer over stock, but as long as you aren't being dumb and trying to hot rod it while towing, firmer is better than softer. The exact reason why all diesels have good solid shifts. Because under load you don't want all that pressure on the transmission.) And locking the torque converter doesn't net you any more power. Easier on the transmission, yes as long as you aren't trying to lock it before it's synced. Which is what these trucks do automatically from factory, so I don't know how your gaining anything here.
So you didn't really tell me how a tow tune is different from a performance tune. All you did was change tranny setting, which anyone can do with a handheld tuner. These trucks don't have big performance gains to be made with a tuner. So I don't know why you're telling people to get a "towing tune". These trucks have a set towing limit. And they handle that weight well. If you feel you need a tune to get that extra power to tow a boat, you need a bigger truck.
If you (MGD) can show me a dyno run of your stock truck vs a "super fast performance but also towing because this tune is amazing and I'll gain a million horsepower" tune. And show me real gains, then I'll believe you.
Feel free to also tell me what engine only tuning changes you made to these 5.4's to gain hp. I'm still curious.
03-24-2015, 12:03 AM
#16
Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town all weekend.
Point one of using more fuel is a given. It's hard to make power by reducing fuel. But points 2,3,4,5 are all transmission related. You aren't making more power by changing those setting. Managing it slightly better to be easier on components sure (of which points 2 and 3 I don't agree with. You want later and slightly firmer shifts too; these engines make there power in the 2500 rpm and up band. No point in dropping it down to 1200 rpm just so it can struggle to get back into its powerband. And soft shifts are super hard on transmission clutches. I'm not saying go 50% firmer over stock, but as long as you aren't being dumb and trying to hot rod it while towing, firmer is better than softer. The exact reason why all diesels have good solid shifts. Because under load you don't want all that pressure on the transmission.) And locking the torque converter doesn't net you any more power. Easier on the transmission, yes as long as you aren't trying to lock it before it's synced. Which is what these trucks do automatically from factory, so I don't know how your gaining anything here.
So you didn't really tell me how a tow tune is different from a performance tune. All you did was change tranny setting, which anyone can do with a handheld tuner. These trucks don't have big performance gains to be made with a tuner. So I don't know why you're telling people to get a "towing tune". These trucks have a set towing limit. And they handle that weight well. If you feel you need a tune to get that extra power to tow a boat, you need a bigger truck.
If you (MGD) can show me a dyno run of your stock truck vs a "super fast performance but also towing because this tune is amazing and I'll gain a million horsepower" tune. And show me real gains, then I'll believe you.
Feel free to also tell me what engine only tuning changes you made to these 5.4's to gain hp. I'm still curious.
Point one of using more fuel is a given. It's hard to make power by reducing fuel. But points 2,3,4,5 are all transmission related. You aren't making more power by changing those setting. Managing it slightly better to be easier on components sure (of which points 2 and 3 I don't agree with. You want later and slightly firmer shifts too; these engines make there power in the 2500 rpm and up band. No point in dropping it down to 1200 rpm just so it can struggle to get back into its powerband. And soft shifts are super hard on transmission clutches. I'm not saying go 50% firmer over stock, but as long as you aren't being dumb and trying to hot rod it while towing, firmer is better than softer. The exact reason why all diesels have good solid shifts. Because under load you don't want all that pressure on the transmission.) And locking the torque converter doesn't net you any more power. Easier on the transmission, yes as long as you aren't trying to lock it before it's synced. Which is what these trucks do automatically from factory, so I don't know how your gaining anything here.
So you didn't really tell me how a tow tune is different from a performance tune. All you did was change tranny setting, which anyone can do with a handheld tuner. These trucks don't have big performance gains to be made with a tuner. So I don't know why you're telling people to get a "towing tune". These trucks have a set towing limit. And they handle that weight well. If you feel you need a tune to get that extra power to tow a boat, you need a bigger truck.
If you (MGD) can show me a dyno run of your stock truck vs a "super fast performance but also towing because this tune is amazing and I'll gain a million horsepower" tune. And show me real gains, then I'll believe you.
Feel free to also tell me what engine only tuning changes you made to these 5.4's to gain hp. I'm still curious.
The changes are relative to the stock tune - both tow and perf specific tunes make more power, but the perf tune does in fact make more than the tow, and the tow does in fact take driveline stresses in a tow situation into account, whereas the perf tune does not have to deal with that.
My perf tunes do outperform my tow tunes. Not by much, but it is tangible.
On a stock 5.4, that always shifts early (4600 rpm) and thus never realizes the claimed 300 crank HP that arrives at ~5,000 rpm. That change alone for the 1-2 and 203 upshift ( along with reductions in tq managment and quicker shifts makes a huge difference at any octane. The perf tune just goes a bit higher; ~5400 rpm, along with very quick shifts to drop into the next gear and stay in the powerband sweet-spot.
Engine only changes - VCT profiles, timing advance (utilizing the knock sensor feedback more aggressively, and requiring higher octanes for optimal gains), allowing enrichment to begin almost immediately in open loop instead of the stocker delaying same until > 3,000+ rpm, open loop A/F a tad leaner ( but with an eye on keeping those EGT's in check )....
No we are not talking massive gains, but very tangible and worthwhile gains in both available 'under the curve' gains and driveability nonetheless.
Trans algorithm changes are an integral and crucial facet of aftermarket tuning results - trans tuning is at least as important as pure engine calibration changes.
Fer dyno info just contact a custom tuner. My data predominantly comes from TP - a proponent of application-specific tuning as opposed to 'combo' tunes. With supporting R&D, and volumes of actual test data to back it up.
BTW - having access to some of these setting exposed as end-user adjustments does no one any good if you don't know what yer doing. Folks, in their zeal, tend to just make matter worse. Nor do end-user adjustments have the breadth or depth or granularity that is accessible with the tuner-level toolsets ( e.g Advantage III for SCT ).
Sorry you don't agree - I stand on my recommendations based upon sound principles, and the accumulated knowledge of experts. I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head - the info is there fer the taking - you just need to make the effort to get it.
Still being acerbic I see. No matter.
MGD out.
Last edited by MGD; 03-24-2015 at 12:09 AM.
03-24-2015, 03:28 AM
#17
I do my own tuning using PRP and Advantage III.
I can tell you right off the bat my tow tune has slightly less aggressive timing table with a very similar fuel table.
As far as tuning the transmission, I have a 18% higher line pressure on the 1-2 shift. I also force the shift earlier than a performance tune. Example being shifting 1-2 @ 4600 vs 5350 on a performance setup. On the 2-3 shift the line pressure is elevated 15% and the shift stays the same.
As far as the locking converter my setup locks the converter earlier than in a performance tune as I utilize more of the torque management algorithms to help keep trans temps down. So the converter locks earlier in second gear and third.
I can tell you right off the bat my tow tune has slightly less aggressive timing table with a very similar fuel table.
As far as tuning the transmission, I have a 18% higher line pressure on the 1-2 shift. I also force the shift earlier than a performance tune. Example being shifting 1-2 @ 4600 vs 5350 on a performance setup. On the 2-3 shift the line pressure is elevated 15% and the shift stays the same.
As far as the locking converter my setup locks the converter earlier than in a performance tune as I utilize more of the torque management algorithms to help keep trans temps down. So the converter locks earlier in second gear and third.
The following users liked this post:
MGD (03-24-2015)