ngrigoriev

Hello!

First post here, really I do not have F-150 yet but I have decided to change my current car for F-150 after some serious considerations...and to have a bit more fun driving.

I have built my configuration with ford.ca, then tried to get the idea of the invoice price through CarCost. My ideal truck is 2017 Lariat SuperCrew with 5,5' bed, 4x4, 3.5L Ecoboost with most of the features (502A, moonroof, technology etc). So, according to CCC its MSRP is supposed to be $72,100 and invoice $64,211. I talked to one of the dealers here near Montreal (not to be named) and their MSRP matched mine. However, their invoice price was about $2K over what was quotes by CCC and CCC's report did include the freight. By the way, all before taxes here. So far I was always happy with CCC results and I do not know why would they suddenly be that far off.

Next, I have X-Plan. From what I know, X-Plan (invoice-0.4%*invoice+$275) mathematically should be within dozens of $ from the invoice. 64,229.156 if invoice is 64,211.

Now, the weird part. Dealer's X-Plan before-tax price was way above the "invoice" (whatever number they had as invoice price). By about $1600 or so. Again, freight is supposed to be included in both.

I looked at https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerw...an_invoice.pdf and it clearly shows that the total invoice price and x-plan price should be very close.

Dealer could not explain the mystery but their point was that "since it is from Ford, then they cannot be wrong, it is their software...". We were custom-building the truck so, obviously, I could not see the real invoice at that point. The guy has opened the "invoices" of two random cars he had in the showroom and they had similar difference between the "total" in the right column and X-Plan price. A-Plan price was shown next to it and it was, as expected, about 4% less than X-Plan.

So, I am puzzled now. Obviously, I did not close the deal since we were by about $4K apart between what I was planning to pay and what the dealer was asking. Taking my time to gather my intelligence before next attack.

So, there are two questions I would like to ask. Maybe there is somebody here with a fresh Canadian invoice from Ford? :

- could it be possible that CarCost is that off from the reality or it is the dealer who played some dirty game?
- did anyone see a big difference between the invoice total and X-Plan price?

BTW, CCC's invoice for this truck before freight is $50,662 vs MSRP of $56,599. From CCC's description I see that they deduct the 2% holdback from the options. But even with $12K options this would be still $240 so it cannow skew the number that much.

And, if someone can refer a honest sales guy from Ford around Montreal, I would appreciate the reference. Actually, not looking for any miracles, simple X-Plan minus currently applicable rebates

EDIT:

I think I am starting to understand. I did another pass on the partners's site and found https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerc...an_invoice.pdf Note that it is "partnercaweb". There, in that invoice, X-Plan price is way above the invoice. So, does it mean that the formula for X-Plan in Canada is different from the US?

McCarthy

With X plan, you are allowed to request to see the invoice. On the bottom of the page you will see two lines, A plan and X plan. You'll pay X plan - rebates. It is ABOVE invoice.

ngrigoriev

Answering to myself Called a few numbers today, finally gotten to Canada X-Plan people. And there a lady was kind enough to explain me the formula that works in Canada.

So, A-plan is invoice minus holdback. And X-Plan is, obviously, 4% above that. So, if I have the invoice price, I can subtract 2% (Ford dealer holdback in Canada) and then add 4% to it, and it will be approximately the X-Plan price. Now it makes sense...

So, that means the dealer is guaranteed to make about 4% on any X-Plan deal PLUS, I believe, Ford pays them something on top of that to compensate for X-Plan pricing. I think this mark-up is a bit too excessive. Looks like I am better try to ignore X-Plan and get closer to the invoice instead. At least it does not hurt to try.

McCarthy

Doesn't work that way. X plan is 2% ABOVE invoice. You won't get better than that. Canadian dealers do not dip into holdback.

ngrigoriev

I think some do dip, but you are ignoring 2% _above_ the invoice (and invoice includes the holdback). This is what makes X-plan useless in Canada. Well, not totally useless. It just changes the way the negotiations happen if you have access to more than one Ford dealer. You just need to put it this way: I can buy at invoice +2% from any dealer at any time. Do not have to buy from you. So, convince me to buy from you or I will try another guy

You need to go below invoice to start eating into dealer's holdback. Which is still possible but not for any car and not at any moment. I imagine the dealer may be more willing to do it if it is about a car sitting on their lot already, and for long enough.

All before the current incentives, of course.

McCarthy

Look, considering I am a Canadian dealer, I think i would know.

ngrigoriev

Look, considering I am Canadian consumer I think I know something too

In fact, I do not understand what we are arguing about Yes, X-Plan in Canada is about 2% over the invoice. Which is, in its turn, about 2% above the dealear's final cost. So, even in Canada, market is market and informed customers negotiate knowing about these ~4%. I admit, it is hard to get into the lower 2%. Hard but impossible - I have previous experience. As for the top 2% - the customer absolutely should negotiate them. Because there will be another dealer who will agree to a lower premium to win the business.

Few years ago I walked to one of Ford dealerships, exploring the Explorer. I told the salesman that I had X-Plan and his answer was "good, but I will make you even better deal". I did not buy the car, but his offer was much better than X-Plan - even before the incentives.

My recent experience with F-150 purchase proves that as well. If you insist and show you are willing to walk away - the dealers behave as they are supposed to. Again, market is above everything.

I am no arguing that the dealers are making too much or not enough - I do not really care. I care about the value I get from them. And, honestly, when I send the detailed spec of the car I want by email, with all paint codes etc, there is not too much value in the dealer's service for me. We will see each other again when I come to the oil change, for sure.

Fairway Fatty

Sorry - Posted in wrong thread.
(My mother was born in Nova Scotia though!!)

Jason Da Mota

I haven't picked up my truck yet so not to sure of final cost but msrp is $56860 and I'm leasing for 3yrs for $275.72 all in every two weeks with zero downpayment. Includes drop in liner and winter mats. Truck is 2019 Black F150 XLT 302A Sport package
20" rims and Navigation. I think the residual is $29,000
Is this a good deal??

koloa street

You guys think prices for 2019s will continue to drop, if so when would be the best month to buy? Looking to buy a v8 xlt 4x4 with the moon roof. Best deal I can get seems to be around 48k out the door. If I can get a lariat under 50k OTD, think I might go that route.