pnaples92

I was on the highway noticed that 4th started to slip a little so i slowed down and the problem seemed to go away until i stopped for fuel once i started the truck back up it threw codes P0731 and P0732 with a transmission malfunction message. Once i got home tried to park and had no reverse so i ended up getting frustrated and nailed the gas with it in reverse and the transmission popped and reverse started working again and the codes went away. Although 4th still slips 1-3 and reverse seem to work fine but my trans temps are at about 175 while driving and when i stop they go back down to about 147. It drives ok with the OD off other than 3rd seems to keep my engine at about 3,000 rpm doing about 55 with the converter locked then other times its at about 2,200 at the same speed. Before i commit to buying a new trans does that sound more like an internal failure or something else. Fluid isn't discolored, have a burnt smell nor did it seem to have anything floating on the dip stick and it was at the correct level. I have been having issues with it down shifting it would clunk from what seemed like from 4th to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd, Upshifts are normal although something was slipping accelerating when engine speeds are between 3,500-4000 but figured it was tensioner as some of the idlers have burn marks and belt material burned on them. I don't have a scanner with the capabilities to check the operation of the shift solenoids. I do have a edge tuner on it but all i use it for is to monitor other functions. It has been on the towing mode before but nothing higher and it wasn't on there to long. So any help on if this sounds like internal failure or something else would be nice.

thanks

techrep

iTrader: (1)

Year .. make .. model.. mileage

PerryB

From the description I'd say that you're about to be the owner of a new transmission.

pnaples92

its a 06 f150 4x4 135k

650NutKase

drop the pan and have a looksie

pnaples92

that will be the next thing i do when i have time to do it. about 6 months ago it was down to replace the filter and there was metal in it not sure as to how much as the place that did it didn't keep any of it so i could see but i was told there where "chunks of metal" in the pan. which is know isn't good but i never had an issue before that nor after until now

F150Torqued

@pnaples92
Our trucks provide a treasure trove of OBDII parameters about our transmissions. It is unfortunate you do not have a scanner that allows reading custom PIDs. Your description sounds like it could be a line pressure solenoid or one of the shift solenoids. The over temp you report is a dead ringer of the two DTCs (saying the input to output shaft ratios are out of whack with the ratio table ---- likely meaning torque converter slip (whipping the oil up into a frenzy and stuff overheating).


Check your PM's, I'm sending you some good Trans documentation. Ford uses 'acrynoms' for the OBDII signals - you can find all them in the documentations, but if you need PID numbers for some of those signals I can provide them. Maybe you can catch it before it gets any worse.

pnaples92

yeah i wish i had a scanner that could read that kind of stuff but i just couldn't justify the cost of one when my dealership has a few of the brand specific ones so all i have is the basic code readers. I will ask around tomorrow at work and see if anyone has one but i doubt it. thanks for info i will take a look at those

pnaples92

I got my hands on a scanner till monday that can talk with my transmission. It says solenoid 1 and 2 have no faults and seem to work until the trans shifts itself, which started today, into neutral which both are active. Trans temps have risen to 215, and it doesn't appear that the converter can stay locked up as when it tries to the rpms go up about 1,000. Line pressures are any where between 0 and 86.5 PSI. The scanner doesn't say that the PCM notices any slip in it. If someone could let me know what i need to monitor when driving i will do that and record what they are.

thanks

F150Torqued

Great work on the getting the scanner. Maybe we can sort out if it is a pressure solenoid or internal.


I think the solenoid 'Fault' indicators you refer to may indicate 'electrical integrity' only. Agreed - it sounds like your Torque Converter Clutch is not holding - is slipping. Perhaps that is what is generating the excessive heat. That 215 deg. temp is very troubling. Mine runs close to 135-140 (even in hot south Texas heat), seldom up to 145 unless I'm pulling my boat.

With Torque Pro I have monitored a bunch of Transmission related PIDs. Many that seem they should be helpful in your case. But my trans is working correctly, so there are many that I do not fully understand the meaning of - or exactly what you should be looking for. I do not know where you are obtaining your pressure reading of 0-86.5 from. /// However /// it seems that you should be seeing some higher pressures if they are monitored while driving (when the problem occurs), but maybe OK at idle / first gear. The Factory Trans Manual (@ page 39) shows a table for LINEDSD (Line Desired pressure commanded by PCM ranging from 50 psi to 200 psi). Note: 'LINEDSD' is not an actual pressure transducer reading - but the PCM's 'requested' pressure. _I THINK_ the actual pressure is at TCCPC. Those two run pretty much together on my truck. I monitor them live - side by side - from the following custom pids:


PID No: 09D8
Long Name: _Transmission Line Pressure Desired
Short Name: LINEDSD
Min/Max: 0, 250
Unit: PSI
Equation: A*256+B


PID No: 09AE
Long Name: _Torque Converter Control Pressure Commanded
Short Name: TCCPC
Min/Max: 0 250
Unit: PSI
Equation: A*256+B


--- The documented 'name' of the latter suggests it _might_ be a 'commanded' pressure - and NOT an actual pressure from a 'transducer', IDK. But they seem related to your problem and the two track very close on my truck. If the latter is not actual pressure, I have never found an actual pressure from the OBDII system. One _MIGHT_ have to screw a pressure gauge into the pressure port on top of the trans to verify pressures are near what the PCM is requesting. There is an OBDII pid for EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid, but it is in "Current", not "PSI" - and I have NOT BEEN ABLE to work out a good formula to convert the output of PID 090B to anything meaningful. I don't even know WHAT would be normal current for it. But FWIW, its at:


PID No: 090B
Long Name: _Transmission Electronic Pressure Control A commanded current
Short Name: PCA AMP
Min/Max: ?????
Unit: AMPS
Equation: A ..???


--- Then there is also a Torque Converter Clutch Control - whatever that is ?? IDK, but the OBDII output is presented in "Duty Cycle". This might be a hydrolic solenoid that is modulated by duty cycle square wave, but it is located here:


PID No. 11B0
Long Name: _Torque Converter clutch Control (Duty Cycle)
Short Name: TCC
Min/Max: 0, 100
Units: %
Equation: (A*256+B)*(100/32767)


---
From my study / researching for custom perameter Ids, I have built a gauge in Torque Pro for monitoring Torque Converter Slip accross the torque converter (TCS). I would _think_ this one should be helpful in your instance. On my truck, TCS tracks engine RPM at idle in gear. In neutral at idle it indicates pretty close to zero - but will bounce when engine is revved. It varies through the gears (declining with each higher gear) until TC locks at cruise - where it goes to almost absolute zero (perhaps .5 - 2 RPM at most). PID NO for TCS is:


PID: 11b8
Long Name: _Torque Converter Slip accross torque converter.
Short Name: TCS
Min/Max: 0/1000
Units: RPM
Equation: (A*256+B)/4



---
There is a Torque Converter Clutch Control Status intended for OSC 'Output State Control' diagnostics by IDS technicians located at:


PID 0971
Long Name: _Torque Converter Clutch control status (Where 0 = Normal Operation, 1 = Locked by OSC diagnostics, 2= UnLocked by OSC)
Short Name TCC_OSC
Min/Max: 0 / 2
Units: Interger
Equation: A


---
There are a NUMBER of 'relevant' FLAG bits maintained by the PCM that seem highly relevant in your case - if you can read them (either by Acrynom or by raw data) and intrepret the binary bits to determin if the bit is On or Off. For efficiency I just list these PIDs serially. They are:


PID No: 1105 (Bit 1), Name: _Transmission Overtemp Lockup Mode (MFEM), TCC_FM, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1105 (Bit 2), Name: _Transmission Overtemp (MFEM), TOFMEM, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1105 (Bit 4), Name: _Shift Solenoid 1 Control, SS1, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1105 (Bit 5), Name: _Shift Solenoid 2 Control, SS2, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1106 (Bit ?), Name: _Electronic Pressure Control Failure Mode (MFEM), Unit On/Off -- [Bit number is unknown for sure _think its '1', however pid 1106 has eight failure flags and the entire byte should be ZERO]
`
PID No: 1107 (Bit 2), Name: _Transmission Oil Temperature Sensor Fault MFEM Mode, TFTFM, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1107 (Bit 3), Name: _Torque Converter Clutch unlocked due to excessive slip (MFEM), TCCFM, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 1632 (Bit 6), Name: _Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Fault, Short Name: TCC_F, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 16BE (Bit 0), Name: _Coast Clutch Solenoid inductive signature malfunction detected: CCS_F, Unit On/Off
`
PID No: 16BE (Bit 5), Name: _Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid inductive signature malfunction detected: TCC_FIS, Unit On/Off

Hope this in conjunction with the scanner helps. It should keep you busy over the weekend. Lol

Good Luck


------------------ EDIT ----
For Torque Pro users: The 'Mode' for all PIDs listed is '22' (For example, Mode/PID, add 22 in front of each PID listed) For ALL, Header is 'Auto', Scale is 'x1', and ALL flag bits are in byte 'A', Start and Stop Diagnostic Command is 'blank'. The Torque Pro equation to peal off binary bit On/Off status is {A:x} (- those are braces-not parenthesis), where 'A' is response byte indicator and 'x' is the bit to be tested.