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How are you monitoring that? How did you measure more low end torque? Just curious we like facts not just "well it feels more powerful" or "the heads have never melted"
Pure physics. Increased low end torque with the cam fully advanced. Nearly 2 years without any cooling issues. How would I prove that my heads are overheating? Do you not think that whoever made this claim needs to prove it ?
And yes you can feel the increased low end torque
Last edited by BadFish523; 06-19-2017 at 09:09 AM.
The person who claimed this can prove it using data logging. You would prove the heads are over heating by using live data to measure their temp. My code reader can show me head temps. Not trying to start an argument, just wondering if you had proof or just spreading bad information that could end up hurting someone's​ vehicle. Which is why we like proof. As I suspected you don't seem to have any proof to your claim.
Last edited by BadFish523; 06-17-2017 at 08:52 AM.
May I respectfully defend what I said? Specifically I did not assert any particular 'cooling issues' would befall lockout users. I simply stated that cams locked at full advance "makes cylinder head temperature run higher, places a greater load on cooling system...". Retarding cams will ingest a little exhaust gasses lowering compression and oxygen content of combustion - rapidly cooling cylinder head temperature (AS SOON AS THE TORQUE REQUIREMENT SUBSIDES). Of course with lockouts, the VVT system cannot move cams off full advance when the increased TORQUE requirement subsides.
And my good friend @BadFish523 is correct --- I have data logged everything temperature with Torque Pro as discussed at length here: https://www.f150forum.com/f4/torque-...1/#post5339202
using this set of gauges where Cylinder Head Temperature (normalized by the PCM through a moving average algorithm) along side the 'dynamic' CHT calculated directly from the CHT sensor.
Originally Posted by NOTAGT
Pure physics. Increased low end torque with the cam fully advanced. ...
...
And yes you can feel the increased low end torque you idiot.
Now, if I may ask, "Where does the 'increased' low end torque come from?" since the "BASE POSITION" on the variable valve timing system is at full advance (which is commanded position when TORQUE is prescribed based upon engine load).
The person who claimed this can prove it using data logging. You would prove the heads are over heating by using live data to measure their temp. My code reader can show me head temps. Not trying to start an argument, just wondering if you had proof or just spreading bad information that could end up hurting someone's​ vehicle. Which is why we like proof. As I suspected you don't seem to have any proof to your claim.
Well you may be able to read a head temp, but which sensor is that I wonder. If you are able too, you would have to have comparative data under controlled conditions. That still would not prove if you are correct , a detriment to the engine.
I stand by my satisfaction of using the lockouts to resolve an issue with a bad design.
Well you may be able to read a head temp, but which sensor is that I wonder. If you are able too, you would have to have comparative data under controlled conditions. That still would not prove if you are correct , a detriment to the engine.
I stand by my satisfaction of using the lockouts to resolve an issue with a bad design.
To each his own. I really dislike the idea of lockouts. I replaced all my timing components and it runs better than it ever did. As I've said on the forum many times before, it's your truck not mine. I was just looking for any facts you might have so other members can have all the information. Good or bad.
04-06 you don't have to take the valve covers 07-08 you do have to take them off.
I was tired when I answered that, assuming 04 to 06. He has a 2010 . In this case.. I have no Idea.
But I have heard purge solenoids could cause rough idles, etc on those late models.
Mike
Well you may be able to read a head temp, but which sensor is that I wonder. If you are able too, you would have to have comparative data under controlled conditions. That still would not prove if you are correct , a detriment to the engine.
I stand by my satisfaction of using the lockouts to resolve an issue with a bad design.
More power to you sir. However, the majority of us know that its a band aide at best. Your top end is still not getting enough oil pressure, etc.
Many of us have also point blanked Livernois on these forums and were never given a straight answer to many legitimate concerns. Its all just smoke and mirrors. Like a filibustering politician asking them for a straight answer.
More power to you sir. However, the majority of us know that its a band aide at best. Your top end is still not getting enough oil pressure, etc.
Many of us have also point blanked Livernois on these forums and were never given a straight answer to many legitimate concerns. Its all just smoke and mirrors. Like a filibustering politician asking them for a straight answer.
Mike
Is there any comparative and controlled data to support that there is less oil pressure to the top end with the lockouts and tune? (VCTs are now non-functioning) I would think that with the VCT now not controlling oil flow to the cam phasers, there would be more back pressure and greater oil pressure to the top end, but I admit I do not have data to support this.
As I have posted, the Ford repair does not guarantee a permanent solution ,as experienced by my brother. I have not heard of anyone who has installed the lockouts in conjunction with new chains, guides ,tensioners, etc, correctly , have any issue.
Yes variable cam timing is a great idea, but this system was substandard and best eliminated IMO.
As pointed out to me, this forum wants to only deal with quality data ( which I have not seen yet) and does not believe in how you "feel" your truck runs.
I disagree with the last part. My truck is smooth, quiet, does not run hotter, definitely has more low end torque and fuel mileage seems about the same as other owners report (but I could be wrong on the mileage as I have no controlled data to support)) Low end torque is improved due to the intake valve closing a little sooner with the advanced cam.
May I respectfully defend what I said? Specifically I did not assert any particular 'cooling issues' would befall lockout users. I simply stated that cams locked at full advance "makes cylinder head temperature run higher, places a greater load on cooling system...". Retarding cams will ingest a little exhaust gasses lowering compression and oxygen content of combustion - rapidly cooling cylinder head temperature (AS SOON AS THE TORQUE REQUIREMENT SUBSIDES). Of course with lockouts, the VVT system cannot move cams off full advance when the increased TORQUE requirement subsides.
And my good friend @BadFish523 is correct --- I have data logged everything temperature with Torque Pro as discussed at length here: https://www.f150forum.com/f4/torque-...1/#post5339202
using this set of gauges where Cylinder Head Temperature (normalized by the PCM through a moving average algorithm) along side the 'dynamic' CHT calculated directly from the CHT sensor.
Now, if I may ask, "Where does the 'increased' low end torque come from?" since the "BASE POSITION" on the variable valve timing system is at full advance (which is commanded position when TORQUE is prescribed based upon engine load).
"Then it will drop below CHTMP when cruising, coasting. You can see the cylinder head cooling effect of Cam retard."
Not much data here. Cylinder head would naturally run cooler when cruising or coasting. You would have to do comparative and controlled data collection to properly determine the effect on engines with or without lockouts. And if the lockout temps were a bit higher, that still may not indicate that this is problematic.
Not to high jack the discussion and cool things you guys are doing with Torque but I do have a quick question WRT to phaser knock and timing.
...168k, '05, 5.4, chain and tension replaced at 100k by previous owner and now I'm getting the famous diesel knock and more ticking. However, it is very sporadic and comes and goes. If I'm idling and its knocking, I do a quick shut down and start up and its gone, typically will come back at 50mph so far. When there is no knock, I get very little ticking, when the knock comes I get codes like crazy, (P0022, over timing bank 2; 340- Camshaft position sensor Bank 1; P345; P349. And now I'm getting Rich Bank 1 and 2 and Misfires codes on Cylinder 5.
What in the world would make this so intermittent that a simple shut down and turn on makes it go away? Sensor? Clogged oil port? Bad seal?. I've run MC filter and oil only and so did the previous owner.
06-17-2017, 07:21 AM
