Hi guys, I have a problem with my 2005 f150 Lariat. When I start my truck it makes a loud clanking/rattling. Once it is running it sounds normal it only makes the noise at start up and it's pretty loud. I would also note that if the truck is warm it's not as loud but if it has been sitting for a while or all night it's really loud. I took it to the dealership a few times and the latest time they said it was cam Phasers. The repair would be $2800 but hey would give me a discount to $2400 because the were wrong the first few times I took it in. Im wondering if this sounds right? I thought cam Phasers made noise while the truck was running.Thanks for any help. I don't have the money for this repair what are the long term problems I could have. I have been having this problem for over a year and it seems to be getting louder.

 

what kind of oil filter you have? the the first thing members are going to ask you.. MotorCraft, Wix are a few examples that have this silicone anti-drain thing that keeps oil up in the valvetrain to keep it from clanking on start up... usually Cam Phasers are loud after it has warmed up and only between like 1000k to 1300k then goes away in the higher rpms..

 

I'm not sure...I had the oil changed at the dealership so I would assume it's Motorcraft. How do I know if my oil filter has a drain back valve? I have done some research and came up with either wrong oil filter or timing chain tensioners but I'm not really sure. I think the dealership has misdiagnosed it for the third time.

 

Well buddy ill tell you what it is. Its a 5.4 3v and their noisy as hell. My truck does it and I'm assumin its either the phasers don't have oil in them after the truck has sat for a while or the plastic timing chain tensionors have taken a crap. An old 7.3 PSD is lookin better everyday when i hear my 5.4 crank up and make that noise in the morning. Or a new 6.7 PSD would even be nice.

 

It sounds horrible at start up. I feel like there has to be a solution to this problem. Anybody ever solve this?

 

I am not sure if this is the same noise, but the manual states that some engine knock on the start up is normal for these trucks.

 

This can't be normal sound its loud enough when i start the truck people stop and look. Sounds like bunch of marbles in a coffee can only louder. I think it has something to do with the oil cause if the engine is warm you only hear it faintly. When its cold really loud.embarrassingly loud.

 

The rattling on cold start most likely is the timing chain hitting against the motor case caused by the chain being more slack after the tensioner bleeds down over time because of a bad seal and/or worn tensioner arms and guides. While they may have their own problems/noises, you can replace the phasers all day long and it won't make a bit of difference for that particular problem. Worn lash adjusters also may tap more on startup as they bleed down but generally that's a more distinct and rhythmic tapping as the roller/rocker hits that/those adjuster(s) versus the more random rattling of the chain. Likewise, changing the phasers won't help with that.

Get a cheap mechanics stethescope (or have your mechanic do it) and you'll be able to better isolate the various noises. A short length of garden hose with you hand cupped around the end will also work in a pinch.

For this particular rattling noise, listen at the very front side of the valve cover and you'll pretty clearly hear the chain clacking around in there. As the motor warms and the chain is tensioned you'll hear it progress to more of a irregular chinging-type noise as the loose chain rolls over the cam sprocket and hits less against the case. Assuming that it's working right, once the chain is properly tensioned you'll hear a more quiet, constant, steady zinging that you might imagine from a chain running around a sprocket.

The way that these motors are set up, the chain seems to hit most on the far driver's side of the case as any slack is thrown off of the sprocket in that direction and where the edge of the case is closest to the sprocket versus the passenger side where the direction of the chain is moving toward the inside of the motor and away from that case edge.

In normal operation good phasers will make a light knocking noise, not the obvious diesel-type noise that most people complain about when they're bad.

The lash adjusters can be heard farther back from the front as fairly distinct taps as they are hit.

Listen at the fuel rail and you'll hear the faster, lighter ticking of the injectors.

All of these you can hear without the stethescope but it makes it easier to isolate where particular noises are coming from and once you do you'll be able to pick out each noise when it's running.

 

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like the noise comes from the passenger side of the engine.would that indicate timing chain?

 

Can't really say based on the side alone but as I said above the chain will tend to hit the case more on that side because of the direction of travel of the chain.

Think about a somewhat loose chain spinning around a sprocket. As it spins faster it will tend to throw any slack that exists in the chain off of the far side of the sprocket and you'll have sort of a "wave" or "hump" of slack formed there before it's taken up by the guide. In these motors (assuming just a loose chain and not a broken guide or something else along those lines), that happens at a spot on the far driver's side where the edge of the case is relatively close to and the travel of the chain throws the slack toward it. If you pull the valve cover on that side or if you have access to a scope then you'll likely see a bright spot on the case where the chain has been hitting as it comes off of that sprocket. Depending on how loose it is you may see some other wear pattern.

I don't want to try to diagnois an expensive repair like that over the Interwebs but, as above, if you or your mechanic listen as it starts and warms up, then you/they should be able to distinguish between phasers and the chain. The difference being whether you're pulling the front cover to fix the chain, tensioners, etc., or just the valve covers to fix the phasers (or both). Point of my response was that the phasers don't tend to make that rattling noise on startup and to make sure that's what it is before spending money to have them changed and ending up with shiny new phasers and the same old problem. Given that all of the phasers, lash adjusters, and chain, tensioners, guides tend to be a problem on these motors and most of the cost is in labor getting in there, you might consider having it all done while they're there.