Absolutely DEVASTATED....
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 359
From: Ohio
and stay far away from the dealership with this repair. No dealer mechanics do or have done rebuilds before. You need to find a trusted mechanic with experience in engine rebuilds. Look for a guy involved in some form of auto racing, they repair and rebuild engines all the time and will know exactly what to do.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 77
Likes: 10
The service manager was either not be truthful or doesn't know a cylinder from his *****hole.
There is absolutely no truth to what he said. We replace single pistons in race engines all the time and they are under far more strain and far higher RPMs then what that engine could even image seeing. As for the head, seriously? No balance issue whatsoever changing one side. Completely full of ****!
Truth be told most OEM engines are not fully balanced from the factory and the likelihood that a single piston is so far off weight from the others that it would toss out balance is ludicrous. By a factory piston and change it out, assuming you do not see significant damage to the cylinder wall.
Yes this is likely out of your league but it can be done by a novice. I would not leave that piston in there and attempt to repair the head. That piston is damaged and has a high likelihood of coming apart and causing much worse damage than you already have. The piston will not be a lot of money on its own and having a machine shop swap the rod will not be much either.
Pull the head and have a good look at what the damage actually is. You can pull a single piston with the engine still in the truck.
Drop the oil pan
pull the piston rod cap off
cover the rod bolts and be careful with the bearings
gently tap the piston down from above (need two people here,one to tap and one to catch the assembly.
Take it to a machine shop and have them instal a new piston
Reassemble in reverse order making sure the cap goes back on the same way (mark it when you take it off) and the rod bolts are torqued correctly.
Make any repairs needed to the head
As for the cylinder, if there are any scratches you can feel with a finger nail, call in a pro to have a look and give you some advice.
There is absolutely no truth to what he said. We replace single pistons in race engines all the time and they are under far more strain and far higher RPMs then what that engine could even image seeing. As for the head, seriously? No balance issue whatsoever changing one side. Completely full of ****!
Truth be told most OEM engines are not fully balanced from the factory and the likelihood that a single piston is so far off weight from the others that it would toss out balance is ludicrous. By a factory piston and change it out, assuming you do not see significant damage to the cylinder wall.
Yes this is likely out of your league but it can be done by a novice. I would not leave that piston in there and attempt to repair the head. That piston is damaged and has a high likelihood of coming apart and causing much worse damage than you already have. The piston will not be a lot of money on its own and having a machine shop swap the rod will not be much either.
Pull the head and have a good look at what the damage actually is. You can pull a single piston with the engine still in the truck.
Drop the oil pan
pull the piston rod cap off
cover the rod bolts and be careful with the bearings
gently tap the piston down from above (need two people here,one to tap and one to catch the assembly.
Take it to a machine shop and have them instal a new piston
Reassemble in reverse order making sure the cap goes back on the same way (mark it when you take it off) and the rod bolts are torqued correctly.
Make any repairs needed to the head
As for the cylinder, if there are any scratches you can feel with a finger nail, call in a pro to have a look and give you some advice.
That being said, (just spit-balling here), what is the guarantee that this issue hasn't caused any other problems? Metal fragments elsewhere in the engine? The engine itself has 130k miles on it. I understand if cared for properly these engines could get 250k+ miles. I don't have a history on the truck to help me determine percentages on failure later somehow.
The cylinder this occurred in was the very last one on the passenger side (go figure). This causes problems with accessibility.
I am just looking for best possible solutions. Keep in mind I was prepared to do the timing components and valve lifters/rockers prior to this debacle. I appreciate everyone's response and humbled by all of your help. Thanks!
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 77
Likes: 10
On a side-note, I contacted the business that manufactures the impact swivel and spoke with a clerk who answered the phone. She took my information and what happened, and said a person from Quality control will call me back. (I wasn't going to hold my breath). To my surprise, I received a call from one of the head honchos. We had a conversation for about 45 minutes. I was floored on his response. He advised me to keep him posted on what tools I will need for my job and he would be more than willing to help. I will keep you updated. Just putting that out there to let people know there are some businesses that aren't just out there to get a buck.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 282
From: Slate River, ON
I knew going in to the dealership they would probably recommend a new engine. Everyone made a valid point in that dealerships don't do rebuilds much, so I was not shocked when they recommend a new one.
That being said I have friends that are dealer techs that also work on racecars and build engines on the side so not a shot at dealer techs. That is just to say that a dealer does not do rebuilds.
That being said, (just spit-balling here), what is the guarantee that this issue hasn't caused any other problems? Metal fragments elsewhere in the engine? The engine itself has 130k miles on it. I understand if cared for properly these engines could get 250k+ miles. I don't have a history on the truck to help me determine percentages on failure later somehow.
Certainly! Don't get me wrong I am advocating an investigative process/teardown. If the damage does not go beyond the piston itself the engine is likely salvageable. It is a bit of a fallacy that metal will be spread throughout the engine since it would have to make it past the screen on the oil pump and then somehow get through the oil filter. Oil drains down so any contaminants would end up in the oil pan.
The cylinder this occurred in was the very last one on the passenger side (go figure). This causes problems with accessibility.
All the work would be from below so not a big issue. The head would be off for inspection and possible magna fluxing (process used to look for subtle cracks in the metal) so not an issue there either.
I am just looking for best possible solutions. Keep in mind I was prepared to do the timing components and valve lifters/rockers prior to this debacle. I appreciate everyone's response and humbled by all of your help. Thanks!
That being said I have friends that are dealer techs that also work on racecars and build engines on the side so not a shot at dealer techs. That is just to say that a dealer does not do rebuilds.
That being said, (just spit-balling here), what is the guarantee that this issue hasn't caused any other problems? Metal fragments elsewhere in the engine? The engine itself has 130k miles on it. I understand if cared for properly these engines could get 250k+ miles. I don't have a history on the truck to help me determine percentages on failure later somehow.
Certainly! Don't get me wrong I am advocating an investigative process/teardown. If the damage does not go beyond the piston itself the engine is likely salvageable. It is a bit of a fallacy that metal will be spread throughout the engine since it would have to make it past the screen on the oil pump and then somehow get through the oil filter. Oil drains down so any contaminants would end up in the oil pan.
The cylinder this occurred in was the very last one on the passenger side (go figure). This causes problems with accessibility.
All the work would be from below so not a big issue. The head would be off for inspection and possible magna fluxing (process used to look for subtle cracks in the metal) so not an issue there either.
I am just looking for best possible solutions. Keep in mind I was prepared to do the timing components and valve lifters/rockers prior to this debacle. I appreciate everyone's response and humbled by all of your help. Thanks!
1. Can be repaired, replace piston and reassemble.
2. Can be repaired, replace piston and some minor head work.
3. Can be repaired, replace piston and head.
4. Repair can be done but is more serious, bring short block in for rebuild and reuse top end including the new parts you were going to get anyway.
5. Intense work needed, purchase new short block and reuse top end.
6. Complete rebuild needed, replace entire engine.
The list is generally in order by increasing cost. Again you will not know for certain until you pull the head off and have a good look at what is happening in there. I would go and talk to a good machine shop that does engine rebuilding regularly and has a great reputation.
They may have a guy that will pop by your place and have a look to make recommendations or will know a guy (mechanic or engine rebuilder) that they can recommend that will come by for an estimate and overview of what you have.
Last edited by Dirttracker18; Apr 7, 2016 at 02:00 PM.
TOTM 8/2019
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,831
Likes: 398
From: NJ
This seriously is bad news, hopefully you have another way to get to work or whatever if this is your daily driver.
If it was me, I'd pull the head and take a look. I think you should be able to do that much on your own. I never did it but if you have time and a shop manual, it shouldn't be too bad.
At that point, take some pictures and get an opinion. Seems to me though even if you need to have someone do the work to rebuild that, at that point I would lean toward a new engine based on cost. You need to do a tradeoff.
If it costs only a grand more for a new engine compared to repair costs, I'd go new if you plan to keep the truck for a long time.
Either way, hope it works out.
If it was me, I'd pull the head and take a look. I think you should be able to do that much on your own. I never did it but if you have time and a shop manual, it shouldn't be too bad.
At that point, take some pictures and get an opinion. Seems to me though even if you need to have someone do the work to rebuild that, at that point I would lean toward a new engine based on cost. You need to do a tradeoff.
If it costs only a grand more for a new engine compared to repair costs, I'd go new if you plan to keep the truck for a long time.
Either way, hope it works out.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 282
From: Slate River, ON
It is no small job and getting up higher on the difficulty scale but it is actually farther up the scary **** to attempt scale
Step by step, get that head off and see what you are dealing with and report back. Pictures of visible damage will help to make a determination.
There are a number of very knowledgable people on here that can help walk you through the process.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 420
Likes: 46
From: Albany NY area
Like several of the guys here have said, FIND A REPUTABLE shop, with a good mechanic to help you. If you were in the Albany, NY area I'd suggest to see Doug at Rhoades Service Center. It will take him time to get to it if he takes it. In any case you are no worse off taking the head off yourself. The trick to getting the head in and out on our trucks is to leave the headbolt against the fire wall in the head. Take your time, take pictures, label hoses, bag and label small parts and bolts. Any internals you remove, rockers, etc. label their position and direction.
DO A LOT of Research -
It sucks how you got here, but this problem could be your greatest learning experience when it comes to engines. Over the years I have had my share of OH-***** happen. But today with the help and knowledge I can get from the internet I have very few items I will not tackle on my trucks..........
I found a video on how to repair/replace the casing seals on a GM A/C compressor. Never done it before, but it ain't working now (leaks out the seals) so what the heck, and I know I can get the clutch and pulley puller on tool loan from AutoZone, as well as gauges and vacuum pump to evacuate the system after repair. If it works I fix it for $20 or so plus freon, if it does not then I am no worse off.
DO A LOT of Research -
It sucks how you got here, but this problem could be your greatest learning experience when it comes to engines. Over the years I have had my share of OH-***** happen. But today with the help and knowledge I can get from the internet I have very few items I will not tackle on my trucks..........
I found a video on how to repair/replace the casing seals on a GM A/C compressor. Never done it before, but it ain't working now (leaks out the seals) so what the heck, and I know I can get the clutch and pulley puller on tool loan from AutoZone, as well as gauges and vacuum pump to evacuate the system after repair. If it works I fix it for $20 or so plus freon, if it does not then I am no worse off.
Last edited by tomb1269; Apr 7, 2016 at 02:03 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 77
Likes: 10
On a side note, I currently have the following timing components for sale:
Timing Chains, Tensioners, guides, both Cam sprockets, VCT solenoid, front timing cover gaskets, Rocker arms and lifters (currently soaking in 5w20 motorcraft oil). All Ford Genuine Parts. Message me if interested. shoot me a reasonable price. Keep in mind these components I sell are going toward repairing an engine. Be nice...
Timing Chains, Tensioners, guides, both Cam sprockets, VCT solenoid, front timing cover gaskets, Rocker arms and lifters (currently soaking in 5w20 motorcraft oil). All Ford Genuine Parts. Message me if interested. shoot me a reasonable price. Keep in mind these components I sell are going toward repairing an engine. Be nice...