A take off or launch shudder...maybe not suspension related?
04-13-2012, 11:01 AM
#1
A take off or launch shudder...maybe not suspension related?
First off, what I am describing in this post, is an altogether different issue, than the common acceleration shudder, caused by spring wrap in the rear leaf springs.
My truck: '11 XLT supercab 6.5' bed 145" WB 5.0L 4x4, one piece aluminum driveshaft. 1400 miles on odometer. Built Nov 2011.
My truck has some minor vibes and wobbles that are a bit irratating (through steering wheel, floorboards, and seat), and I am still getting used to the 6 speed select shift trans. Reading this forum, these things aren't all that uncommon, though, and are very subtle, and only a minor annoyance at this point. I might not even notice these vibes if it weren't for the otherwise, super plush ride this truck has. I know this is a different truck than my previous '06 F150 4x4 SCrew 5.4L, that really didn't have these sensations while driving it.
But, to get to the point, doing some reading on all the guys with the take off shudder, from a stop, I do notice something sort of similar (or maybe the same), that is beginning to annoy me. When stopped, if I hit the gas with a decent punch (not near enough to break the tires loose or activate trac control though), for about the first 4-5 feet of travel, I feel about 3-4 pulses in the drivetrain, until I get past about 4-5 feet. It is a very quick and minor shudder, that feels like a couple slips, and bumps, as if a clutch pack or torque convertor were chattering upon engagement.
I don't think my launch shudder is spring wrap / driveline angle issues, for the following reasons: Most of the complaints of the take off shudder that is spring wrap related, seem to experience the sensation at more constant, low speed, and not only on the first few feet of travel, that alter with differing loads. Mine only does it in the first few feet of travel, from a stopped, idling condition. It seems to maybe be a bit more prevelant when the engine trans are cold. Also, I did a load test of about 500 lbs in the bed, with no difference in the shudder. If I hold down the brake, and increase the rpms just a little bit, or a lot, before leaving the stop, no shudder at all is perceived (I would think spring wrap would be increased when doing this test).
It almost seems as if the torque convertor or clutch system in the trans have some minor chatter only when going from a complete stopped, idle condition. I did a couple tests in reverse from a stop, and didn't notice the shudder, so I am leaning towards it not being the torque convertor (I would assume the torque convertor would chatter here also).
When I get some time later today or tomorrow, I intend to do some more testing, while combining reverse, 4wd, and with brake torquing, to see how the shudder may be different.
Again, this is a very minor sensation, and not noticed at all, if taking off at slow, or a more regular pace. Its just about 3 pulses when moving the first 4-5 feet. I could certainly live with it, but am concerned that it may be an indication that something isn't quite right, and could be trouble down the road. The condition is so minor, I would expect the dealership to simply say, its normal, and just a characteristic of the truck. But, no other rear drive Ford I have ever driven, and currently drive, has done this. I would like to drive a couple more similar trucks, to see if they also do this, but it might be hard to justify asking this at the dealer.
Any thoughts? Do you guys with similar trucks feel this? I am curious....
My truck: '11 XLT supercab 6.5' bed 145" WB 5.0L 4x4, one piece aluminum driveshaft. 1400 miles on odometer. Built Nov 2011.
My truck has some minor vibes and wobbles that are a bit irratating (through steering wheel, floorboards, and seat), and I am still getting used to the 6 speed select shift trans. Reading this forum, these things aren't all that uncommon, though, and are very subtle, and only a minor annoyance at this point. I might not even notice these vibes if it weren't for the otherwise, super plush ride this truck has. I know this is a different truck than my previous '06 F150 4x4 SCrew 5.4L, that really didn't have these sensations while driving it.
But, to get to the point, doing some reading on all the guys with the take off shudder, from a stop, I do notice something sort of similar (or maybe the same), that is beginning to annoy me. When stopped, if I hit the gas with a decent punch (not near enough to break the tires loose or activate trac control though), for about the first 4-5 feet of travel, I feel about 3-4 pulses in the drivetrain, until I get past about 4-5 feet. It is a very quick and minor shudder, that feels like a couple slips, and bumps, as if a clutch pack or torque convertor were chattering upon engagement.
I don't think my launch shudder is spring wrap / driveline angle issues, for the following reasons: Most of the complaints of the take off shudder that is spring wrap related, seem to experience the sensation at more constant, low speed, and not only on the first few feet of travel, that alter with differing loads. Mine only does it in the first few feet of travel, from a stopped, idling condition. It seems to maybe be a bit more prevelant when the engine trans are cold. Also, I did a load test of about 500 lbs in the bed, with no difference in the shudder. If I hold down the brake, and increase the rpms just a little bit, or a lot, before leaving the stop, no shudder at all is perceived (I would think spring wrap would be increased when doing this test).
It almost seems as if the torque convertor or clutch system in the trans have some minor chatter only when going from a complete stopped, idle condition. I did a couple tests in reverse from a stop, and didn't notice the shudder, so I am leaning towards it not being the torque convertor (I would assume the torque convertor would chatter here also).
When I get some time later today or tomorrow, I intend to do some more testing, while combining reverse, 4wd, and with brake torquing, to see how the shudder may be different.
Again, this is a very minor sensation, and not noticed at all, if taking off at slow, or a more regular pace. Its just about 3 pulses when moving the first 4-5 feet. I could certainly live with it, but am concerned that it may be an indication that something isn't quite right, and could be trouble down the road. The condition is so minor, I would expect the dealership to simply say, its normal, and just a characteristic of the truck. But, no other rear drive Ford I have ever driven, and currently drive, has done this. I would like to drive a couple more similar trucks, to see if they also do this, but it might be hard to justify asking this at the dealer.
Any thoughts? Do you guys with similar trucks feel this? I am curious....
Last edited by Jimbo45; 04-14-2012 at 01:39 PM.
04-13-2012, 02:05 PM
#3
2011 Ecoboost SC 6.5 box. What you described exactly word for word of what I am feeling. Having a load does not changes thing. I did take it to the dealer and they said they can not feel it. I was questioning the torque covertor also as well.....
04-13-2012, 03:36 PM
#6
Better OUT then IN
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Florida (Ft. Lauderdale area)
Posts: 3,343
Received 253 Likes
on
206 Posts
My truck: '11 XLT supercab 6.5' bed 145" WB 5.0L 4x4, one piece aluminum driveshaft. 1400 miles on odometer. Built Nov 2011.
Mine is a 2011, superCab same bed and wheel base except FX2 (2WD). I have just over 24,000 miles on mine.
My truck has some minor vibes and wobbles that are a bit irratating (through steering wheel, floorboards, and seat), and I am still getting used to the 6 speed select shift trans. Reading this forum, these things aren't all that uncommon, though, and are very subtle, and only a minor annoyance at this point. I might not even notice these vibes if it weren't for the otherwise, super plush ride this truck has. I know this is a different truck than my previous '06 F150 4x4 SCrew 5.4L, that really didn't have these sensations while driving it.
But, to get to the point, doing some reading on all the guys with the take off shudder, from a stop, I do notice something sort of similar (or maybe the same), that is beginning to annoy me. When stopped, if I hit the gas with a decent punch (not near enough to break the tires loose or activate trac control though), for about the first 4-5 feet of travel, I feel about 3-4 pulses in the drivetrain, until I get past about 4-5 feet. It is a very quick and minor shudder, that feels like a couple slips, and bumps, as if a clutch pack or torque convertor were chattering upon engagement.
I don't think my launch shudder is spring wrap / driveline angle issues, for the following reasons: Most of the complaints of the take off shudder that is spring wrap related, seem to experience the sensation at more constant, low speed, and not only on the first few feet of travel, that alter with differing loads. Mine only does it in the first few feet of travel, from a stopped, idling condition. It seems to maybe be a bit more prevelant when the engine trans are cold. Also, I did a load test of about 500 lbs in the bed, with no difference in the shudder. If I hold down the brake, and increase the rpms just a little bit, or a lot, before leaving the stop, no shudder at all is perceived (I would think spring wrap would be increased when doing this test).
From what you describe, that's different then my experience. Mine would shudder at the top of 1st and 2nd gears - and was much MUCH worse as the loads got heavier. It would also wheel hop pretty badly under certain conditions again, worse when loaded. The RAS completely resolved my issue.
It almost seems as if the torque convertor or clutch system in the trans have some minor chatter only when going from a complete stopped, idle condition. I did a couple tests in reverse from a stop, and didn't notice the shudder, so I am leaning towards it not being the torque convertor (I would assume the torque convertor would chatter here also).
When I get some time later today or tomorrow, I intend to do some more testing, while combining reverse, 4wd, and with brake torquing, to see how the shudder may be different.
I'd be interested in reading those results. Testing is the only real way to know. Good luck.
Again, this is a very minor sensation, and not noticed at all, if taking off at slow, or a more regular pace. Its just about 3 pulses when moving the first 4-5 feet. I could certainly live with it, but am concerned that it may be an indication that something isn't quite right, and could be trouble down the road. The condition is so minor, I would expect the dealership to simply say, its normal, and just a characteristic of the truck. But, no other rear drive Ford I have ever driven, and currently drive, has done this. I would like to drive a couple more similar trucks, to see if they also do this, but it might be hard to justify asking this at the dealer.
Again, under load, mine was very noticeable anytime I was accelerating from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gears - whether I came to a complete stop or not. To date, the only thing that's resolved it is the RAS. One huge additional benefit to me by using the active suspension is the better handling both loaded and unloaded and much less sag when loaded.
Any thoughts? Do you guys with similar trucks feel this? I am curious....
Mine is a 2011, superCab same bed and wheel base except FX2 (2WD). I have just over 24,000 miles on mine.
My truck has some minor vibes and wobbles that are a bit irratating (through steering wheel, floorboards, and seat), and I am still getting used to the 6 speed select shift trans. Reading this forum, these things aren't all that uncommon, though, and are very subtle, and only a minor annoyance at this point. I might not even notice these vibes if it weren't for the otherwise, super plush ride this truck has. I know this is a different truck than my previous '06 F150 4x4 SCrew 5.4L, that really didn't have these sensations while driving it.
But, to get to the point, doing some reading on all the guys with the take off shudder, from a stop, I do notice something sort of similar (or maybe the same), that is beginning to annoy me. When stopped, if I hit the gas with a decent punch (not near enough to break the tires loose or activate trac control though), for about the first 4-5 feet of travel, I feel about 3-4 pulses in the drivetrain, until I get past about 4-5 feet. It is a very quick and minor shudder, that feels like a couple slips, and bumps, as if a clutch pack or torque convertor were chattering upon engagement.
I don't think my launch shudder is spring wrap / driveline angle issues, for the following reasons: Most of the complaints of the take off shudder that is spring wrap related, seem to experience the sensation at more constant, low speed, and not only on the first few feet of travel, that alter with differing loads. Mine only does it in the first few feet of travel, from a stopped, idling condition. It seems to maybe be a bit more prevelant when the engine trans are cold. Also, I did a load test of about 500 lbs in the bed, with no difference in the shudder. If I hold down the brake, and increase the rpms just a little bit, or a lot, before leaving the stop, no shudder at all is perceived (I would think spring wrap would be increased when doing this test).
From what you describe, that's different then my experience. Mine would shudder at the top of 1st and 2nd gears - and was much MUCH worse as the loads got heavier. It would also wheel hop pretty badly under certain conditions again, worse when loaded. The RAS completely resolved my issue.
It almost seems as if the torque convertor or clutch system in the trans have some minor chatter only when going from a complete stopped, idle condition. I did a couple tests in reverse from a stop, and didn't notice the shudder, so I am leaning towards it not being the torque convertor (I would assume the torque convertor would chatter here also).
When I get some time later today or tomorrow, I intend to do some more testing, while combining reverse, 4wd, and with brake torquing, to see how the shudder may be different.
I'd be interested in reading those results. Testing is the only real way to know. Good luck.
Again, this is a very minor sensation, and not noticed at all, if taking off at slow, or a more regular pace. Its just about 3 pulses when moving the first 4-5 feet. I could certainly live with it, but am concerned that it may be an indication that something isn't quite right, and could be trouble down the road. The condition is so minor, I would expect the dealership to simply say, its normal, and just a characteristic of the truck. But, no other rear drive Ford I have ever driven, and currently drive, has done this. I would like to drive a couple more similar trucks, to see if they also do this, but it might be hard to justify asking this at the dealer.
Again, under load, mine was very noticeable anytime I was accelerating from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gears - whether I came to a complete stop or not. To date, the only thing that's resolved it is the RAS. One huge additional benefit to me by using the active suspension is the better handling both loaded and unloaded and much less sag when loaded.
Any thoughts? Do you guys with similar trucks feel this? I am curious....
Last edited by justjimmy; 04-13-2012 at 03:38 PM.
Trending Topics
04-13-2012, 05:32 PM
#8
Yes it does. But, the LS rear end should not cause this, when accelerating in a straight line (not turning). I am very familiar with the LS rear end clutch shudder feeling, as our '02 Explorer did this when new, when starting from a stop, and turning, or going in circles. The LS clutches do not turn against each other when going straight. Some friction modifier in the rear diff, fixed that Explorer right away. But again, this is not the issue here with my F150, I don't think, since this happens when going straight.
Thanks for the help so far guys. I work 12 hr shifts, and have to work the next few days (drive a different truck to work), so I hope to do some more testing this weekend if I get a chance to drive it.
Justjimmy, yes, I think mine and yours are two seperate issues. I never feel any shudders at any speed, or any gear, other than the first few feet of travel off a stop. In fact, other than this quick little slip bump slip bump slip bump pulsing off the line, my truck/trans is butter smooth and shifts like a dream.
I am concerned about it though, since it only has 1400 miles on it, and this issue seemed to crop up in the last couple hundred miles. I hope its something that can be taken care of, and not get worse, and end up costing me a lot of money, after the warranty is up.
Thanks for the help so far guys. I would be interested to hear from more folks that might have this issue. Better yet, for those of you that have '11 SuperCab 6.5' beds, if you could test your trucks on your next outing, that would be great. Just get on the gas quickly and aggressively, from a complete stop, and see if you feel a small shudder in the first revolution of the tires. I can feel it each and everytime I take off quickly, and only need to travel a few feet each time I try it. It is very brief and subtle though, and if you aren't closely feeling for it, you may even mistake it for road defects. It won't be felt at all, if taking off slowly, though.
Last edited by Jimbo45; 04-13-2012 at 05:39 PM.
04-15-2012, 01:07 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Jimbo45
Bump. Anyone else test to see if you have this issue?