Looking for advice on replacing steering linkages
05-18-2016, 10:17 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Looking for advice on replacing steering linkages
Hi. '85 F150, 4.9L 2WD short bed.
Steering has been loose for a while. Replaced all 4 tires last year. All parts may be original - not sure. I've owned it for about 7 years, don't put 1000 miles a year on it.
The only loose ball joint I see is the one on the center link (I believe also called the drag link). No other obvious problems (like steering gear and column joint).
Rather than possibly having a nightmare dealing with corrosion on the toe adjusting sleeve threads (plus unknown age/life on the other parts), I was thinking of removing and replacing all the linkages (outer tie roads, adjusting sleeves, center link, inner tie rod) as an assembly - might as well do the upper and lower ball joints too.
Questions:
1) I see 'C' hook-type toe adjusting sleeve tools for Ford trucks and they're not cheap - different ones with no years or models specified. Do I really need one of those?
2) Will a Pitman arm tool work for separating the ball joints, or is that strictly for the Pitman arm? I have a couple pickle forks and 2- and 3-jaw pullers. I see some different size Pitman arm tools. If Pitman arm tools will work for the ball joints, I don't mind buying them. If so, will one size do them all, or are a couple of sizes needed? What is the best tool for the ball joints?
3) The only recognizable brand name for steering parts at a reasonable price that I see is AC Delco. Are their parts decent quality? I don't need OEM, but I don't want junk either.
4) I see recommendations on this site for parts from http://shop.broncograveyard.com - any recommendations on them vs. AC Delco?
Any advice and info. much appreciated.
Steering has been loose for a while. Replaced all 4 tires last year. All parts may be original - not sure. I've owned it for about 7 years, don't put 1000 miles a year on it.
The only loose ball joint I see is the one on the center link (I believe also called the drag link). No other obvious problems (like steering gear and column joint).
Rather than possibly having a nightmare dealing with corrosion on the toe adjusting sleeve threads (plus unknown age/life on the other parts), I was thinking of removing and replacing all the linkages (outer tie roads, adjusting sleeves, center link, inner tie rod) as an assembly - might as well do the upper and lower ball joints too.
Questions:
1) I see 'C' hook-type toe adjusting sleeve tools for Ford trucks and they're not cheap - different ones with no years or models specified. Do I really need one of those?
2) Will a Pitman arm tool work for separating the ball joints, or is that strictly for the Pitman arm? I have a couple pickle forks and 2- and 3-jaw pullers. I see some different size Pitman arm tools. If Pitman arm tools will work for the ball joints, I don't mind buying them. If so, will one size do them all, or are a couple of sizes needed? What is the best tool for the ball joints?
3) The only recognizable brand name for steering parts at a reasonable price that I see is AC Delco. Are their parts decent quality? I don't need OEM, but I don't want junk either.
4) I see recommendations on this site for parts from http://shop.broncograveyard.com - any recommendations on them vs. AC Delco?
Any advice and info. much appreciated.
05-19-2016, 10:06 AM
#2
Having done all this before without any prior knowledge, here's how I accomplished it. First, I took a picture of the existing steering linkage on the truck. Then I went online and identified the different components by name/picture. Then I found the best deal on each part. Once the parts arrived, I referred back to the website to match the part number with the installation position (left, right, upper, lower, inner, outer, etc). Then I pre-assembled the entire steering linkage holding it up to the existing steering linkage on the truck to make sure I had ball-parked all the adjustment lengths. After installing all the new parts, I drove it down to the tire shop and had them align it more properly.
1. With new parts (which you say you want to get everything fresh), you should be able to turn the adjustment sleeve with your hand until after you tighten the sleeve clamps. If you have them just snug enough to not jump a thread, a large screwdriver or chisel should allow you to turn them. New sleeves are pretty cheap at RockAuto ($4-$12)
2. I think you have your terminology wrong. Even though the drag link and tie-rod ends have "ball joints" on them, the part that is called a ball joint is mounted in the steering knuckle. The tie rod ends and center/drag link only require the forks to remove them (and even then it was still difficult to get them separated). The steering knuckle ball joints require being pressed out with a ball joint tool which can be "rented for free" from an auto box store.
Ball joint: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0Joints/14.jpg
3. I bought a variety of Moog, AC Delco, Motorcraft, and Mevotech parts and they all seemed like hard steel to me. They all fit together fine too without any issues since they're all made to OEM (or better) specs.
4. I've bought from Bronco Graveyard before. It's just another option for finding the best deal to me. For steering parts, RockAuto had the best prices even after shipping was considered. All-in-all, I paid only ~$130 for all new steering components whereas at the box store, I would have been way over $300.
1. With new parts (which you say you want to get everything fresh), you should be able to turn the adjustment sleeve with your hand until after you tighten the sleeve clamps. If you have them just snug enough to not jump a thread, a large screwdriver or chisel should allow you to turn them. New sleeves are pretty cheap at RockAuto ($4-$12)
2. I think you have your terminology wrong. Even though the drag link and tie-rod ends have "ball joints" on them, the part that is called a ball joint is mounted in the steering knuckle. The tie rod ends and center/drag link only require the forks to remove them (and even then it was still difficult to get them separated). The steering knuckle ball joints require being pressed out with a ball joint tool which can be "rented for free" from an auto box store.
Ball joint: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...0Joints/14.jpg
3. I bought a variety of Moog, AC Delco, Motorcraft, and Mevotech parts and they all seemed like hard steel to me. They all fit together fine too without any issues since they're all made to OEM (or better) specs.
4. I've bought from Bronco Graveyard before. It's just another option for finding the best deal to me. For steering parts, RockAuto had the best prices even after shipping was considered. All-in-all, I paid only ~$130 for all new steering components whereas at the box store, I would have been way over $300.
Last edited by Braggs; 05-19-2016 at 10:39 AM. Reason: clarifying answer/tip #2
05-21-2016, 01:58 AM
#3
Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, Braggs. Very helpful reply. It appears you have great photos - can't see a lot of detail ATM as I'm currently on my iPhone. Will be able to see a lot more tomorrow on my "real" computer. I may have more questions then. You have opened my eyes on what's involved in replacing the upper and lower ball joints - I thought they unbolted and pretty much fell out. I know better now.
As far as my use of the term "ball joint", as you say, there are ball joints on the linkages. I see nothing wrong with using that terminology. I was careful to make it clear when I was talking about *those* ball joints vs. the ones on the knuckles, which I referred to as upper and lower ball joints. I mean, I just don't know what else to call the ones on the linkage parts.
Good point about using a screwdriver or chisel in the slots of the adjusting sleeves to turn them. That should be adequate for new, uncorroded parts. Could be a real problem with the old corroded stuff that's on there now, but we both realize that that is a big part of the motivation in replacing everything at one time to avoid that headache. (And yes - I have already priced everything on Rock Auto and a couple of other sites.) If I ever have to adjust them in the distant future, I'll cross that bridge then. I'll be sure to load the threads with axle grease to hopefully reduce chances of problems. It seems that aftermarket would figure a way to design them with a nice hex grip for positive turning with an open end wrench like I have seen them do with adjusting sleeves for some other vehicles, but it is what it is, as the saying goes.
Thanks again - very helpful.
Oh - one more thought: I hate using pickle forks since they destroy the grease boot. Not a big deal when using all new parts, but I do like to know other options in case I need to pop a joint off in the future that will be re-used. One reason I was wondering about the Pitman arm tool working for those. I also have a feeling that there is room for generic 2 or 3 jaw pullers - *if* they are beefy enough to apply the needed force without breaking. Wouldn't mind seeing some comments on that if anyone has experience with that. As you indicated, I have a feeling some of those very old connections are going to be a bear to get apart.
As far as my use of the term "ball joint", as you say, there are ball joints on the linkages. I see nothing wrong with using that terminology. I was careful to make it clear when I was talking about *those* ball joints vs. the ones on the knuckles, which I referred to as upper and lower ball joints. I mean, I just don't know what else to call the ones on the linkage parts.
Good point about using a screwdriver or chisel in the slots of the adjusting sleeves to turn them. That should be adequate for new, uncorroded parts. Could be a real problem with the old corroded stuff that's on there now, but we both realize that that is a big part of the motivation in replacing everything at one time to avoid that headache. (And yes - I have already priced everything on Rock Auto and a couple of other sites.) If I ever have to adjust them in the distant future, I'll cross that bridge then. I'll be sure to load the threads with axle grease to hopefully reduce chances of problems. It seems that aftermarket would figure a way to design them with a nice hex grip for positive turning with an open end wrench like I have seen them do with adjusting sleeves for some other vehicles, but it is what it is, as the saying goes.
Thanks again - very helpful.
Oh - one more thought: I hate using pickle forks since they destroy the grease boot. Not a big deal when using all new parts, but I do like to know other options in case I need to pop a joint off in the future that will be re-used. One reason I was wondering about the Pitman arm tool working for those. I also have a feeling that there is room for generic 2 or 3 jaw pullers - *if* they are beefy enough to apply the needed force without breaking. Wouldn't mind seeing some comments on that if anyone has experience with that. As you indicated, I have a feeling some of those very old connections are going to be a bear to get apart.
Last edited by Peva; 05-21-2016 at 02:06 AM.
05-21-2016, 04:59 AM
#4
Does your truck have a rag joint in the steering column. If so, it is the first place I would look if you have sloppy steering.
My 1977 only had 48k mIles on it when I adopted it. However, the steering wheel had 3-4 inches of slop in it. I found a minor leak at the brake mastercylinder had caused the rag joint rubber to be eaten up.
My 1977 only had 48k mIles on it when I adopted it. However, the steering wheel had 3-4 inches of slop in it. I found a minor leak at the brake mastercylinder had caused the rag joint rubber to be eaten up.
05-21-2016, 07:50 AM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
In other threads on steering issues, I see the steering gear itself as also being a common contributor to slop - will also look at that for possibly needing a rebuild kit. I hope not. I will also look into the proper procedure for adjusting the screw on the steering gear if the steering gear appears to have lost motion.
I do know that there is lots of play in the center link's ball joint, but that may not be the only place.
05-21-2016, 07:58 AM
#6
A rag joint is midway down the steering column. It is round and has a rubber donut about the size of a large donut.
05-21-2016, 04:38 PM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Good news: I check the column shaft coupling and the steering gear, and can't see or feel any lost motion in either place.
There's a metal universal joint (constructed just like a drive shaft U joint, only smaller) up near the firewall which probably rarely gives problems, and then what y'all are calling the rag joint is right at the input to the steering gear - has a black plastic cover that loosely attaches to one of the p.s. fluid line nuts. I unhooked the cover from the line nut and slid it back to look at and feel both sides of the coupling while my daughter moved the steering wheel back and forth.
The proof on whether I correctly assessed the shaft coupler and the steering gear will be in how she feels after replacing the linkages.
At this point, after seeing Bragg's photos of what's involved in replacing the upper and lower ball joints, I think I'm going to leave the upper and lower ball joints alone and just replace all the linkages and adjusting sleeves. As I mentioned before, I put less than 1000 miles a year on it, so the chances of a ball joint that isn't presently giving problems going bad any time soon should be pretty slim - willing to take the risk. However, before ordering parts, I will thoroughly check out the upper and lower ball joints to make sure they're OK. *if* they need replacing, I'll do it.
Thanks again for the comments and suggestions Braggs and 77Ranger460.
BTW, Braggs, it appears that your photos are of a Dodge Ram, but construction should be similar. Your photo no. 8 shows a Pitman arm tool used to pop a linkage joint loose. The concept seemed reasonable to me, but that photo gives me some hope that that will actually work for my truck. There are different size Pitman arm tools available, so I will measure the pertinent dimensions on the existing parts and hopefully find one tool to do them all.
There's a metal universal joint (constructed just like a drive shaft U joint, only smaller) up near the firewall which probably rarely gives problems, and then what y'all are calling the rag joint is right at the input to the steering gear - has a black plastic cover that loosely attaches to one of the p.s. fluid line nuts. I unhooked the cover from the line nut and slid it back to look at and feel both sides of the coupling while my daughter moved the steering wheel back and forth.
The proof on whether I correctly assessed the shaft coupler and the steering gear will be in how she feels after replacing the linkages.
At this point, after seeing Bragg's photos of what's involved in replacing the upper and lower ball joints, I think I'm going to leave the upper and lower ball joints alone and just replace all the linkages and adjusting sleeves. As I mentioned before, I put less than 1000 miles a year on it, so the chances of a ball joint that isn't presently giving problems going bad any time soon should be pretty slim - willing to take the risk. However, before ordering parts, I will thoroughly check out the upper and lower ball joints to make sure they're OK. *if* they need replacing, I'll do it.
Thanks again for the comments and suggestions Braggs and 77Ranger460.
BTW, Braggs, it appears that your photos are of a Dodge Ram, but construction should be similar. Your photo no. 8 shows a Pitman arm tool used to pop a linkage joint loose. The concept seemed reasonable to me, but that photo gives me some hope that that will actually work for my truck. There are different size Pitman arm tools available, so I will measure the pertinent dimensions on the existing parts and hopefully find one tool to do them all.
Last edited by Peva; 05-22-2016 at 08:16 AM.
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05-23-2016, 09:53 AM
#8
If you don't want to use a fork to separate the steering linkage here's an alternate method. Unscrew the nut, flip it over (so the cotter key grooves are pointed inward), and run the nut down until it's flush with the top of the threads. Then get a big hammer and whack it good. The nut will protect the threads (if you're concerned about that) and will also prevent it from falling out completely.
05-24-2016, 07:47 AM
#10
Member
Thread Starter
OK - thanks.
While I was under there this weekend, I determined that a Pitman arm puller wouldn't fit on the outer tie rod joints - rotor shield is in the way unless you take everything off the knuckle, which I don't plan to do. I know about hitting the stud with the nut to the end, and also you can whack the boss for the stud hard from the side to help shock it loose. I do have two sizes of pickle forks from years ago - might be using them.
Pitman arm puller should work on center link joint. Advance has a smaller one that look like it might be the right size.
While I was under there this weekend, I determined that a Pitman arm puller wouldn't fit on the outer tie rod joints - rotor shield is in the way unless you take everything off the knuckle, which I don't plan to do. I know about hitting the stud with the nut to the end, and also you can whack the boss for the stud hard from the side to help shock it loose. I do have two sizes of pickle forks from years ago - might be using them.
Pitman arm puller should work on center link joint. Advance has a smaller one that look like it might be the right size.