Hey everyone,

I have a 2015 F150 3.5 EB Platinum - 165K - Just did the timing chain, phasers, VCT solenoids, water pump, upgraded to a High volume Oil pump (Melling M390HV) and now trying to figure out a TC issue.

I had a TC shudder last year > put ShudderFix in > went away for 8 months > came back > dropped pan > changed filter > added 7qts of Motocraft ATV > added shudderfix > went away but it is now sluggish when accelerating, almost like the TC is not fully locking.

Here is what I have from Forscan:




To me, it looks like the TC is having a hard time locking up during acceleration or does this look normal?

I am trying to figure out what could be causing the sluggishness on acceleration, seems to just be getting worse, as if one day I will press on the gas and it just will not go anymore.

I should also mention that after doing the timing I would randomly get a P0012 and a P0022, about once every week or two, but I think this could just be a clogged oil filter causing a random drop in oil pressure to the VCTs. Well at least I hope. Maybe I need to clean the contacts or I put the black VCTs in the wrong banks, but I will know more once I change the oil and filter, fingers crossed.

I was about to order a new Circle D TC and a new Borg Turbo kit with manifolds because the driver side turbo is leaking coolant as of a couple days ago, so I took the week off to tackle everything.

I am hoping someone a little more familiar with reading the PIDs on this graph can look at this and either confirm or dismiss a TC issue.

Thank You

 

My concern would be about the new oil pump not being compatible for use in this specific engine family and year.
This engine uses -controlled oil pressure, not just oil pressure per say. The pump may not offer such control to the PCM requirements..
The codes 12 and 22 are for each Bank Intake CAMS Retarded. The Position Sensors are reporting these codes.
This will affect the drivability you experience. May be due to the oil pump concern. Not a fault but a compatibility issue in this case.
.
As for the TC Lockup, if the Lock go's Off and On or slip, you should notice an RPM increase when Lock goes off or slips leaving the TC in fluid slip condition only but still drives the truck otherwise.
It's a bit hard to read the Graphing as posted without magnifying and losing some other parts of the Graph to be sure of a match...
Hope this helps and not confuse.
Good luck.

 

Sorry, I am a little dyslexic, I have the Melling M390HV, not the 360. I will edit the post to reflect the 390.

I came across a video that may explain the P0012 and P0022. I think Ford may have given me the wrong bolts for the phasers or they are missing the sealing washer. I will have to go buy a new set and pull them to check.

I am going to run another forscan tomorrow with these PIDs:
TP%
RPM
Speed
Gear
TQ_Control
TCC_AMP
SLIPACT
SLIPDSD

I want to be able to show how when accelerating it struggles to pull smoothly, it bogs in and out. RPMs go up normally but just seems unstable, not smooth. Also it seems like on acceleration it should be locking out the TC but I do not see the TCC_AMP calling for it, which seems odd. When it does call for it, I see the desired slip lock out but the actual takes about a second or two to actually lock out, is that normal or should it be pretty instant?

Any other thoughts or tests I should try to capture tomorrow?

Thanks

 

Are these the right bolts for these phasers?:

 

Ok,

I have a more slimmed down graph. It looks like most of the time, when amp goes on the TC locks. Should it be more stable then what it shows here:

You can see the Desired is at 1 but actual is 168. You can see the AMP drop right before the Actual spikes to 168 but I would assume the Desired would also spike, which it did not. This tells me the Truck thinks it should be locked but the Actual slipped for a second.
Am I reading this correctly?

Thanks

 

Those parrt numbers are what I have for those parts, but I don't have access to the Ford parts software, just the internet.

 

After further forscan test drives, I think the Torque Converter Clutch is working normally right now with minimal slip.

The P0012 and P0022 is probably due to the VCTs being in the wrong locations. I thought I put them in the same place as when I took them out, but I just looked and I only have 1 of them in the correct location, the exhaust on bank 1. The rest are all in the wrong spot. I will have to swap them and see if the codes go away. Maybe someone can verify the order for me.

Standing in front of the engine, from Left (Bank 1) to Right (Bank 2) it should be:
Black (AT4Z-6M280-A) - Beige (AT4Z-6M280-B) - Blue (AT4Z-6M280-C) - Black (AT4Z-6M280-A)
Is this correct?

Thanks

 

If the torque converter is working as it should, but you still have slipping between your input and output, it would be a cause for concern that your transmission needs a rebuild. Usually that will throw up some gear ratio codes though (or that's my understanding). I'd be super sure that the TQ converter is/isn't working right before pulling trigger on it. This stuff can be tough to diagnose. Good luck, and sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

Just went to Ford and found out I did have the VCTs in the correct locations which is:
Left to Right, facing the motor -> Blue (AT4Z-6M280-C) - Black (AT4Z-6M280-A) - Gray/Beige (AT4Z-6M280-B) - Black (AT4Z-6M280-A).

Maybe I am jumping the gun pointing fingers at the VCTs, because this could just have been an overheating issue which may have been the root cause of the codes, causing the VCTs to stick. I was driving yesterday and noticed the check engine light come on, P0012 and P0022 again, and noticed the temp gauge was at 225. I swapped the thermostat and it fixed the issue. I don't know if the overheating issue was the thermostats fault, but rather the position it was in. Upon replacing it I found that I must have put it in with the air valve in the 8 o'clock position and not 12 o'clock position when I did the timing job. I probably had an air bubble causing the overheating, and in turn causing the VCTs to stick. I believe the overheating issue was also causing my drivers side turbo to leak coolant, but that has seemed to stop leaking now without the excessive pressure buildup in the cooling system. You live, you learn I guess.

Now I just need to replace the passenger side blend door actuator, again, due to passenger side not blowing heat for the umpteenth time in 5 years. Also the front drive shaft blew its seal all over the bell housing, so that will need to be replaced soon, or whenever it sheers off.

Well for now it is time to get new tires and cross my fingers it runs for another 100K.

I will update if the codes come back.

Thanks for trying to help me! It's tough when you're your own worst enemy

 

Transmission shifts smoothly, it just takes a while to get going in normal driving mode, but in sport it is still pretty snappy. Also, I think I may be corelating some of the sluggishness I am experiencing to the possibility that traction control uses bank angle sensors to keep you from sliding out, and in turn bogging me down coming out of the cloverleafs. I will try turning off traction control and see if that helps me come out of the curves with a little more torque. 100% a theory of mine, I am not even sure this truck has such technology built into the Traction Control, but worth a shot.

Thanks