Stuck and buried in snow observation
12-09-2020, 09:52 AM
#81
Senior Member
Thank you. I’ve run in to many people, especially those not used to “real” snow and they think all seasons are fine, and even AT. I’ve even driven AT in snow and it doesn’t compare to real snow tires.
I can take a Honda Ridgeline with awd and a set of blizzaks and go places a trail boss or Raptor would just spin with all seasons in snowy/icy conditions. You can have both rear and front lockers and 4 low, and it won’t do **** if you don’t have traction.
We have pick up trucks with 4 wheel drive and the clearance. I would personally maximize the potential of the platform and just buy a set of snow tires and not worry about it.
same with mudding or rock crawling. You need tires for the scenario.
I can take a Honda Ridgeline with awd and a set of blizzaks and go places a trail boss or Raptor would just spin with all seasons in snowy/icy conditions. You can have both rear and front lockers and 4 low, and it won’t do **** if you don’t have traction.
We have pick up trucks with 4 wheel drive and the clearance. I would personally maximize the potential of the platform and just buy a set of snow tires and not worry about it.
same with mudding or rock crawling. You need tires for the scenario.
Summer, winter, off-road, rock crawling.
Also, in a completely packed ICE/road sure, but in the 4x4 truck at least you can get yourself out if you slide off-road. I have driven on ice/packed and deep snow in my Jeep w/Duratracs.
no snow tire car/ or min-suv would be nearly as safe or keep up. My F150 w/All-terrain might keep up, but still likely break something before my jeep in the event of sliding off-road. but this is for another thread not here to discuss.
But hey , if you have the cash to have multiple sets of wheels/tires ! whohoo go for it.
12-09-2020, 12:45 PM
#82
Senior Member
I was listening to TFL Talkin' Trucks about "cold weather" tires. The guy worked I think for Nokian, maybe wrong, and he was very specific that they are not "snow" tires. LOL. He said its the cold weather compound that makes the biggest difference.
Anyway, the reason I'm commenting is about having multiple sets of wheels and tires. He was asked whether you should have dedicated winter wheels to avoid damage to the tires with changeovers. He said as a practical matter, changing over the tires once a year won't make much of a difference and the tires will probably wear out before swapping them in and out on same rims would cause any damage.
But he also said he wouldn't want his nice wheels to be subject to the salt and crud of winter so it wasn't a bad idea from that standpoint.
Anyway, the reason I'm commenting is about having multiple sets of wheels and tires. He was asked whether you should have dedicated winter wheels to avoid damage to the tires with changeovers. He said as a practical matter, changing over the tires once a year won't make much of a difference and the tires will probably wear out before swapping them in and out on same rims would cause any damage.
But he also said he wouldn't want his nice wheels to be subject to the salt and crud of winter so it wasn't a bad idea from that standpoint.
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johnday in BFE (12-09-2020)
12-09-2020, 04:08 PM
#83
Senior Member
When it comes to affordability, An extra set of wheels and snow treads are not expensive. I purchased two sets of OEM wheels, one set new takeoffs and the other very good. Average cost was $200 per set. Usually, avoiding the remounting and balancing costs of at least $25 per change, twice a year and the cost of the wheels is recovered. The extra cost of the tires can be substantially recovered. Overall, cost isn't a significant consideration for the advantages of running seasonal appropriate tires if multi year ownership of the vehicle is expected.
being in the Midwest and snow rough for 2-3 months. not worth 2 sets. Cold & Crappy for 5 months, but not enough snow that AT or MT cannot handle.
If I was in NY,Canada, or Minnesota maybe worth it. or for the guy that as stuck in the snow drift.
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blkZ28spt (12-09-2020)
12-09-2020, 07:10 PM
#84
Senior Member
“You are correct on the account of LSD's not being a good match for trucks. They are great for shorter wheelbase vehicles that you can quickly bring back into line, but a long wheelbase truck that will swing the rear way out into the next lane, not so much. Pulling a trailer on low traction surfaces, no way is a mechanical LSD a good idea. LSD's are great for track days, not so much for daily drivers.”
Thats funny - do you truly believe this?
A mechanical LS in a pickup will get the rear end loose easier on packed snow and ice, but it’s not a problem if you know how to drive. But in the real world, a pickup with the E Locker, or a LS work so much better than open differentials that it’s not even a fair comparison.
I spent a couple of years pulling my skid steer around, and a decade of pulling my dump trailer, and that’s why I upgraded my rear diff to a Tru Trac.
I’d be pulling my skid steer on gravel, in the Summer, and in 2WD when I stepped on it I got one wheel peels, with dash lights flashing, doing nothing to really stop it. So I’d kick it into 4WD when pulling grades.
With the TruTrac, no one-wheel peels, no flashing lights, and it walked away with it - 9000#.
Sometimes pulling the hills, I’d see the tach creeping up, and hear both wheels churning, but the back end never got loose, not with all that weight keeping me straight like the tail on a kite.
I got a lot of ‘advice’ when I put the front LS in, because I was told it’d be uncontrollable with all 4 wheels churning, but I wasn’t worried about it, because I never saw Raptors slid off the road.
I moved from Montana to Iowa this Summer, and I put my studs on Nov 1st, and so far not a flake of snow.
But I’m ready
Thats funny - do you truly believe this?
A mechanical LS in a pickup will get the rear end loose easier on packed snow and ice, but it’s not a problem if you know how to drive. But in the real world, a pickup with the E Locker, or a LS work so much better than open differentials that it’s not even a fair comparison.
I spent a couple of years pulling my skid steer around, and a decade of pulling my dump trailer, and that’s why I upgraded my rear diff to a Tru Trac.
I’d be pulling my skid steer on gravel, in the Summer, and in 2WD when I stepped on it I got one wheel peels, with dash lights flashing, doing nothing to really stop it. So I’d kick it into 4WD when pulling grades.
With the TruTrac, no one-wheel peels, no flashing lights, and it walked away with it - 9000#.
Sometimes pulling the hills, I’d see the tach creeping up, and hear both wheels churning, but the back end never got loose, not with all that weight keeping me straight like the tail on a kite.
I got a lot of ‘advice’ when I put the front LS in, because I was told it’d be uncontrollable with all 4 wheels churning, but I wasn’t worried about it, because I never saw Raptors slid off the road.
I moved from Montana to Iowa this Summer, and I put my studs on Nov 1st, and so far not a flake of snow.
But I’m ready
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Raptors get Torsens? The clutch pack LSD's that have been used in the F150 are the topic of discussion and have no place as a standard feature in these trucks.
Torsen doesn't lock the wheels together under low power output, permitting free wheeling during cornering unless you really lay into the throttle. This is great for most all-weather driving. The clutch pack diffs that went into the F150 lock the wheels together until you reach a high torque differential at the wheels, so on snow/sluch/ice they remain locked together, not good for turning corners at intersections.
12-09-2020, 07:33 PM
#85
FORD lifer
Yes - the front differential in a Raptor is a mechanical LS made by Torsen. No clutch packs to replace ever. And the preload is perfect.
It matches the Eaton TruTrac in my rear diff perfectly.
I put it in 4H - punch it, and it digs in with all 4 wheels, and pulls hard.
I can pull two wheels on a ice slick, and have two wheels on dry pavement, punch it, and it takes off. No drama.
And the electronic traction control works perfect with it, like pretzels and beer.
Anybody with open differentials, that thinks electronic wizardry will perform on the same level is welcome to do a comparison, we can nylon strap the hitches together, on any surface, and see who has the go power!
It matches the Eaton TruTrac in my rear diff perfectly.
I put it in 4H - punch it, and it digs in with all 4 wheels, and pulls hard.
I can pull two wheels on a ice slick, and have two wheels on dry pavement, punch it, and it takes off. No drama.
And the electronic traction control works perfect with it, like pretzels and beer.
Anybody with open differentials, that thinks electronic wizardry will perform on the same level is welcome to do a comparison, we can nylon strap the hitches together, on any surface, and see who has the go power!
12-10-2020, 03:36 AM
#86
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In my post I did not mention I run 18 inch AT3 in the summer and 20 inch Winter tires which I had on when I got stuck. Carrying a set of emergency snow shovels, weight in the back and gravel in some buckets is what saved me. My Lariat does not have a locker like my previous XLT had and I didn't think it would be much difference but I would highly recommend one. Whether it would have made much difference in this situation remains to be said. The biggest point is to be prepared.
12-10-2020, 09:12 AM
#87
Senior Member
In my post I did not mention I run 18 inch AT3 in the summer and 20 inch Winter tires which I had on when I got stuck. Carrying a set of emergency snow shovels, weight in the back and gravel in some buckets is what saved me. My Lariat does not have a locker like my previous XLT had and I didn't think it would be much difference but I would highly recommend one. Whether it would have made much difference in this situation remains to be said. The biggest point is to be prepared.
My Lariat Fx4 has the locker which was included in the lariat or maybe it was the FX4 part, not 100% sure, except it had every available option at the time (:
Sometimes its just too much snow, or too wet or the ice underneath.
Was never crazy about the new aluminum ones except now seeing the 2021 model does appear inviting.
Especially the 2021 F150 Tremor ( up from the Fx4 )
Last edited by roxbury29; 12-10-2020 at 09:15 AM.
12-10-2020, 12:54 PM
#88
^ glad you were able to at least get yourself out of trouble. I didn't notice you are in the Aluminum F150 too, but you did put the weight back which is needed in the winter months for the newer style. I have the Steel 2014 F150 FX4 -. Also appears the newer trucks come with less options and less weight and more expensive.
My Lariat Fx4 has the locker which was included in the lariat or maybe it was the FX4 part, not 100% sure, except it had every available option at the time (:
Sometimes its just too much snow, or too wet or the ice underneath.
Was never crazy about the new aluminum ones except now seeing the 2021 model does appear inviting.
Especially the 2021 F150 Tremor ( up from the Fx4 )
My Lariat Fx4 has the locker which was included in the lariat or maybe it was the FX4 part, not 100% sure, except it had every available option at the time (:
Sometimes its just too much snow, or too wet or the ice underneath.
Was never crazy about the new aluminum ones except now seeing the 2021 model does appear inviting.
Especially the 2021 F150 Tremor ( up from the Fx4 )
Yes, 2020 vehicles are more expensive than 2014 vehicles. Yes, the aluminum trucks are lighter, they have a higher payload, higher towing, faster acceleration, and better gas mileage. And more available options.
2015+ trucks anyway, FX4 includes the e-locking diff. So does max trailer tow. It's also a stand alone option. But that means a lot of trucks don't have it, if it's not the 3.5 it can't be max tow (through 2020), so if it's not that and it's not FX4 the locker has to be added on its own
12-10-2020, 08:55 PM
#89
Senior Member
Not at all.
Yes, 2020 vehicles are more expensive than 2014 vehicles. Yes, the aluminum trucks are lighter, they have a higher payload, higher towing, faster acceleration, and better gas mileage. And more available options.
2015+ trucks anyway, FX4 includes the e-locking diff. So does max trailer tow. It's also a stand alone option. But that means a lot of trucks don't have it, if it's not the 3.5 it can't be max tow (through 2020), so if it's not that and it's not FX4 the locker has to be added on its own
Yes, 2020 vehicles are more expensive than 2014 vehicles. Yes, the aluminum trucks are lighter, they have a higher payload, higher towing, faster acceleration, and better gas mileage. And more available options.
2015+ trucks anyway, FX4 includes the e-locking diff. So does max trailer tow. It's also a stand alone option. But that means a lot of trucks don't have it, if it's not the 3.5 it can't be max tow (through 2020), so if it's not that and it's not FX4 the locker has to be added on its own
a 2020 F150 Lariat FX4 loaded is $56K range - not entirely Bad.
2021 just over $60K. I would guess Tremor mid 60's
I am sure by 2022 I will be in one, as my 2014 ages.. and will be a 3.5 tuned eco tremor ( If A/Z plan eligible ) since Raptor is NOT.
But hey, its not about the money, we are all FORD guys here or we wouldn't be here.
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BlueSilver (12-14-2020)
12-11-2020, 09:20 AM
#90
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-differential/