EB 3.5 with rod through block at 10K - Livernois tune
06-12-2017, 06:36 PM
#41
Senior Member
[QUOTE=MNSportsman;5351245]
well we will agree to disagree. I would think a tuner could at least offer input of some kind. Put yourself in the customers shoes. You run a tune, you were told this tuner is "safe", engine blows, warranty is in jeopardy. What do you do? Calling the company who modified your computer and touts its success that they've never had an engine fail makes sense. Obviously they have had engines fail. Law of large numbers says so. But they still push their marketing that they are "safe".
An engine letting go at x mileage means little. But we can agree this all can be debated - hence why its worth getting input from a company who does this for a living....
to be fair, calling the tuner to ask "what should I do, I thought this was a safe tune - why did my engine break?" Is very fair.
I disagree - Personally, I do not understand the logic of calling Livernois. What would the OP expect the outcome to be? Livernois saying, "oh, your engine blew, it must have been our tune that caused it…Send us the bill for a new engine and we’ll gladly cover it." There is an inherent risk of running any aftermarket part, tune being no different.
Honestly, my opinion given that this engine let go at such low miles, is there was an integral issue to begin with. Obviously we can debate this all day long...
I disagree - Personally, I do not understand the logic of calling Livernois. What would the OP expect the outcome to be? Livernois saying, "oh, your engine blew, it must have been our tune that caused it…Send us the bill for a new engine and we’ll gladly cover it." There is an inherent risk of running any aftermarket part, tune being no different.
Honestly, my opinion given that this engine let go at such low miles, is there was an integral issue to begin with. Obviously we can debate this all day long...
An engine letting go at x mileage means little. But we can agree this all can be debated - hence why its worth getting input from a company who does this for a living....
06-12-2017, 06:39 PM
#42
Senior Member
I couldn't agree with this statement more. I do my own tuning, but I have seen most all tunes from every vendor. Unleashed, mpt, ssi, to name a few. I have not seen a livernoise tune, but I am willing to bet that they probably max out the lspi tables and add timing in some shape or form. I do not agree with either of these ways, because it leaves no room for error. Bad tank of gas, random lspi event, or who knows what else. Not that it can't happen on the stock tune, but they're some safety's in place to prevent this. Aftermarket tunes simply max all these safety's out in order to gain more power which isn't necessary. Believe it or not, my own personal tune has all the safeties in place and can still produce the boost it needs to make the power. Can mine still throw a rod? Absolutely, but if anything a safety may save me in the event that something goes wrong, and I definitely have precautions in there for a bad tank of gas. I feel bad for anyone that gets an aftermarket tune and is in the mindset that it's safe because the tuner said so. It's simply not true. Bad things can happen either stock or modified. More likely when modified.
06-12-2017, 06:58 PM
#43
I couldn't agree with this statement more. I have not seen a livernoise tune, but I am willing to bet that they probably max out the lspi tables and add timing in some shape or form.
Aftermarket tunes simply max all these safety's out in order to gain more power which isn't necessary.
Believe it or not, my own personal tune has all the safeties in place and can still produce the boost it needs to make the power.
I feel bad for anyone that gets an aftermarket tune and is in the mindset that it's safe because the tuner said so.
Aftermarket tunes simply max all these safety's out in order to gain more power which isn't necessary.
Believe it or not, my own personal tune has all the safeties in place and can still produce the boost it needs to make the power.
I feel bad for anyone that gets an aftermarket tune and is in the mindset that it's safe because the tuner said so.
you did your own aftermarket tune
did not max the safeties
but all aftermarket tunes max the safeties
including the tune you haven't seen
you can still make power
but they apparently can't, without the unsafe and disagreeable steps
At least you aren't saying yours is safe, because that would entail a decently high degree of hypocrisy.
Where's the OP, because the level of mudslinging and speculation is crazy. I'm not even sure what color the truck is, much less what broke it.
06-12-2017, 07:19 PM
#44
Originally Posted by skeksis
Trying to follow here...
you did your own aftermarket tune
did not max the safeties
but all aftermarket tunes max the safeties
including the tune you haven't seen
you can still make power
but they apparently can't, without the unsafe and disagreeable steps
At least you aren't saying yours is safe, because that would entail a decently high degree of hypocrisy.
Where's the OP, because the level of mudslinging and speculation is crazy. I'm not even sure what color the truck is, much less what broke it.
you did your own aftermarket tune
did not max the safeties
but all aftermarket tunes max the safeties
including the tune you haven't seen
you can still make power
but they apparently can't, without the unsafe and disagreeable steps
At least you aren't saying yours is safe, because that would entail a decently high degree of hypocrisy.
Where's the OP, because the level of mudslinging and speculation is crazy. I'm not even sure what color the truck is, much less what broke it.
Last edited by 02reaper; 06-12-2017 at 07:57 PM.
06-12-2017, 08:19 PM
#45
Trying to follow here...
you did your own aftermarket tune
did not max the safeties
but all aftermarket tunes max the safeties
including the tune you haven't seen
you can still make power
but they apparently can't, without the unsafe and disagreeable steps
At least you aren't saying yours is safe, because that would entail a decently high degree of hypocrisy.
Where's the OP, because the level of mudslinging and speculation is crazy. I'm not even sure what color the truck is, much less what broke it.
you did your own aftermarket tune
did not max the safeties
but all aftermarket tunes max the safeties
including the tune you haven't seen
you can still make power
but they apparently can't, without the unsafe and disagreeable steps
At least you aren't saying yours is safe, because that would entail a decently high degree of hypocrisy.
Where's the OP, because the level of mudslinging and speculation is crazy. I'm not even sure what color the truck is, much less what broke it.
Not sure what else needs to be said, and as you say, the "mudslinging" IS really, really crazy.
The oil was changed around 5K.
No, I didn't get pictures and no I am not going to post my receipt.
I really don't give a hoot what people want to believe about me...I think the post is pretty self explanatory to any rational person.
Clearly this is a topic that can't be touched with a 10K mile pole....
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John Huff (01-24-2018)
06-12-2017, 08:22 PM
#46
Your first post taking a dig a Livernois? but no proof of a damaged engine leads me to believe you're trolling. But hey, thats just me.
Glad to see the warranty is taking care of your engine, but with the limited info its hard to blame the tuner on this failure.
Glad to see the warranty is taking care of your engine, but with the limited info its hard to blame the tuner on this failure.
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idrive (06-12-2017)
06-12-2017, 08:24 PM
#47
I would ask that this thread be deleted in the unlikely case Ford sees it and wants to try and recoup their $10,000 repair bill.
I would be happy it was fixed under warranty and keep my mouth shut.
Just some friendly advice for which you paid nothing for, so maybe it's worth nothing...
I would be happy it was fixed under warranty and keep my mouth shut.
Just some friendly advice for which you paid nothing for, so maybe it's worth nothing...
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chimmike (06-12-2017)
06-12-2017, 08:57 PM
#48
There's more than one way to skin a cat...ever heard that? Most choose the easiest way. I guess a easier way to put it is that in the tune that I made for myself there are limits, whereas in most all aftermarket tunes, your limit=boom. Not at all saying mine can't, but I feel that I atleast have a buffer before that happens. Time will tell though.
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idrive (06-12-2017)
06-12-2017, 09:25 PM
#49
No fart cans allowed
Got it. The guys that do this for a living, working on multiple vehicles for other owners, advertising themselves and their services, relying on reputation, word of mouth adverts, a steady stream of fully paid invoices, low refund incidence, and a lack of litigation... they do a worse job than you.
The fact of the matter is that the owner that chooses to tune himself cares much more about his vehicle and will spend the time and effort necessary to gain the knowledge to tune and then perfect the tune for his specific vehicle. It takes an inordinate amount of time and effort to learn how to properly tune with a package like HPTuners, especially on the ecoboost. A lot more information is becoming available than was there even a year ago. I have tuned my GM vehicles with HPT for about 10 years but chose not to even attempt it on the eco because of the lack of available information and the HUGE amount of inter-related tables due to the speed density tuning and added complications of boost.
There are plenty of hacks out there, be it the "big guys", the dyno tuners, or the individual owners.
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robry (06-15-2017)
06-13-2017, 12:18 AM
#50
Oh the hypocrisy is quite real. It's a morale/ ethical question.
If you think the problem is loading a "canned" tune then the responsibility is on the owner not Ford. 10k for new engine, sucks yes, but then again you loaded a tune and your engine blew. Your choice, your decision your consequence. Coincidence, maybe, possibly, but the burden is not on Ford.
"Hiding" the facts, in this case that there was a tune on the truck is well...unfortunately very very typical. Owning up and claiming responsibility is in shorter and shorter supply in this country.
If you feel as though the issue was present prior to the tune, then why remove it and cover up the fact that it was there when it blew? Make your case that it wasn't the tune and roll the dice. Don't get me wrong, you'll lose and the dealer will not cover the repair.
My point being, I've heard and read these exact attitudes before. I owned a diesel previously. Same deal, guys tune (canned tunes or custom) their diesels, blow them up and then want to blame someone. They want to blame the engine, Ford, the tuner, the guy who wrote the tune...etc.
Everyone always wants it both ways.
If you think the problem is loading a "canned" tune then the responsibility is on the owner not Ford. 10k for new engine, sucks yes, but then again you loaded a tune and your engine blew. Your choice, your decision your consequence. Coincidence, maybe, possibly, but the burden is not on Ford.
"Hiding" the facts, in this case that there was a tune on the truck is well...unfortunately very very typical. Owning up and claiming responsibility is in shorter and shorter supply in this country.
If you feel as though the issue was present prior to the tune, then why remove it and cover up the fact that it was there when it blew? Make your case that it wasn't the tune and roll the dice. Don't get me wrong, you'll lose and the dealer will not cover the repair.
My point being, I've heard and read these exact attitudes before. I owned a diesel previously. Same deal, guys tune (canned tunes or custom) their diesels, blow them up and then want to blame someone. They want to blame the engine, Ford, the tuner, the guy who wrote the tune...etc.
Everyone always wants it both ways.