6.0 GM 2500 Vs next gen 5.0/3.5EB for loooong term ownership?
03-19-2017, 10:23 PM
#21
Well yes. The 2nd gen EB has DI and port injection. They are also making them out of compacted graphite iron block and other goodies inside to withstand higher pressures. I own the 2.7 and it's made that way. CGI blocks are what diesels and race engines are made from.
People that use catch cans keep internals clean as a whistle. With that 2nd gen HP and torque numbers are going even higher. I can't even tell you how impressed I am with the low end torque of the EB. Max torque at 3000 rpm. Look up a couple YouTube videos of EB towing. I've never owned a diesel but lots have said they are very diesel like.
But you need to go drive one and do your own kind of research. Then make up your mind.
People that use catch cans keep internals clean as a whistle. With that 2nd gen HP and torque numbers are going even higher. I can't even tell you how impressed I am with the low end torque of the EB. Max torque at 3000 rpm. Look up a couple YouTube videos of EB towing. I've never owned a diesel but lots have said they are very diesel like.
But you need to go drive one and do your own kind of research. Then make up your mind.
Power is the least of my concerns. The EB, 5.0,or 6.0 Gm are all adequate. (would like to see the new 5.0s usable tq brought down a bit)
My top goal is reliability.
Everything else is a distant 2nd.
That's why the 6.0 is an option for me. It's proven, and has almost 20yrs to back it up.
I soooo want a half ton, though. I jist dont need a 3/4.
03-19-2017, 11:00 PM
#22
Im a long time gm guy and the current truck i got right now is a 2015 sierra 1500 and frankly between the lifters rattling and it having less low end power than my 2013 silverado. I cant wait to get rid of it. Ive been watching the ecoboost since its inception and have drove plenty at work and had a few hand me my *** in my pickup so i know they got power to burn. As soon as the money adds up im jumping back to rhe ford ship and never looking back
03-20-2017, 08:30 AM
#23
Senior Member
Hi, after reading your priorities it made me actually write what I have thought, theorized and observed in my life with most engines of all applications.
Generally the lowest horsepower simplest design and by default least fuel efficient engine will be your most long term reliable.
Unfortunately by focusing on reliability you are giving up many benefits of engine advancements including weight, power, efficiency and emissions. Honestly the mileage you are wanting to achieve is easily achievable with any truck engine and your duty cycle seems pretty light. There was a 4.7 litre Toyota Tundra that just went 1,000,000 miles.
You will find the more simple and durable and therefore least fuel efficient engines in the 3/4 tons because they do not have to meet fuel economy standards and emissions. This also allows the manufacturer to use there older, tried and true designs that also saves them money in the long run. They get to build more engines from existing tooling and fixed development costs.
From what you have said you want I believe the 6.0 Chev may be the most reliable engine with a cast iron block, no active fuel management and the longest run. I am a GM guy but the AFM and piston slap going back to the '80s has made me move on. Personal experience with both.
I just think you will be giving up a lot by limiting yourself to that engine and the drawbacks to a 3/4 ton if you don't need it, even brakes cost more at replacement time.
Since you seem to want an essentially old school engine you should probably buy a good used 3/4 ton 6.0 and save a bunch of money. Again you really don't put that many miles on anyway.
If you want a F150 you might look at the 3.5 V6 before it gets DI next year or just look at F250 with the 6.2 gas. It is pretty reliable from what I understand, but no personal experience. You get the aluminum body on the 2017 if that is important to you. It was to me, thats one reason I got a new Ford.
Hope this makes sense. You truly can't compare a 'simple' 1/2 ton engine to an old school 3/4 ton engine with the fuel economy, HP marketing wars, and emissions requirements. All that comes with a price.
I am an old school guy but really love the power, smoothness, and fuel efficiency of my 2.7 ecoboost and the aluminum body.
Generally the lowest horsepower simplest design and by default least fuel efficient engine will be your most long term reliable.
Unfortunately by focusing on reliability you are giving up many benefits of engine advancements including weight, power, efficiency and emissions. Honestly the mileage you are wanting to achieve is easily achievable with any truck engine and your duty cycle seems pretty light. There was a 4.7 litre Toyota Tundra that just went 1,000,000 miles.
You will find the more simple and durable and therefore least fuel efficient engines in the 3/4 tons because they do not have to meet fuel economy standards and emissions. This also allows the manufacturer to use there older, tried and true designs that also saves them money in the long run. They get to build more engines from existing tooling and fixed development costs.
From what you have said you want I believe the 6.0 Chev may be the most reliable engine with a cast iron block, no active fuel management and the longest run. I am a GM guy but the AFM and piston slap going back to the '80s has made me move on. Personal experience with both.
I just think you will be giving up a lot by limiting yourself to that engine and the drawbacks to a 3/4 ton if you don't need it, even brakes cost more at replacement time.
Since you seem to want an essentially old school engine you should probably buy a good used 3/4 ton 6.0 and save a bunch of money. Again you really don't put that many miles on anyway.
If you want a F150 you might look at the 3.5 V6 before it gets DI next year or just look at F250 with the 6.2 gas. It is pretty reliable from what I understand, but no personal experience. You get the aluminum body on the 2017 if that is important to you. It was to me, thats one reason I got a new Ford.
Hope this makes sense. You truly can't compare a 'simple' 1/2 ton engine to an old school 3/4 ton engine with the fuel economy, HP marketing wars, and emissions requirements. All that comes with a price.
I am an old school guy but really love the power, smoothness, and fuel efficiency of my 2.7 ecoboost and the aluminum body.
Last edited by mechanicaladvantage; 03-20-2017 at 08:38 AM.
03-20-2017, 09:20 AM
#24
Senior Member
The 5.0 carries the Coyote name but at it's heart is just the current generation slightly bored out and upgraded 4.6 modular V8 which has been on the market since 1991. Modular V8s have powered thousands of Crown Vic police interceptors and taxi cabs for over 200,000 miles before being retired in the most grueling conditions. I don't think an oil field truck can match a NYC taxi cab for severe engine use. It's also a proven and reliable engine.
Well yes. The 2nd gen EB has DI and port injection. They are also making them out of compacted graphite iron block and other goodies inside to withstand higher pressures. I own the 2.7 and it's made that way. CGI blocks are what diesels and race engines are made from.
People that use catch cans keep internals clean as a whistle. With that 2nd gen HP and torque numbers are going even higher. I can't even tell you how impressed I am with the low end torque of the EB. Max torque at 3000 rpm. Look up a couple YouTube videos of EB towing. I've never owned a diesel but lots have said they are very diesel like.
But you need to go drive one and do your own kind of research. Then make up your mind.
People that use catch cans keep internals clean as a whistle. With that 2nd gen HP and torque numbers are going even higher. I can't even tell you how impressed I am with the low end torque of the EB. Max torque at 3000 rpm. Look up a couple YouTube videos of EB towing. I've never owned a diesel but lots have said they are very diesel like.
But you need to go drive one and do your own kind of research. Then make up your mind.
My opinion, I think any of the three choices you listed will serve you just fine over the long term. Obviously reality may differ because not every single engine is trouble-free but I think problems are far less common than you would think from reading an internet forum. Honestly, if it were me looking at 2017's, I'd go 5.0 or GM because I don't have the confidence in the 10-spd yet. Next year, I'd probably lean 3.5EB or GM until I see how the changes to the 5.0 shake out. Then again, I always say I'll shy away from first year anything yet here I sit with a first year aluminum body.
03-20-2017, 10:09 AM
#25
2021 F150 STX 4x4
Go with the 6.0! It won't be around for much longer before GM replaces it im afraid. The current 5.3 is NOTHING like your current and previous 5.3's trust me. I owned a 200,2004, 2011 and 2014 and couldn't get rid of the 11 and 14 fast enough and off to Ford I went for the first time in my life. The 5.3 of now is a nannied up pig and is gutless. I have the 2.7 ecoboost because I didn't need the 3.5 and the 5.0 was also a consideration.
03-20-2017, 02:16 PM
#26
My screen name alone should be enough to show my path. But further explanation is I have been a 5.3 Silverado driver all adult life. 99 single cab 2wd, 12 ext cab 4x4, 11 crew 4x4. I loved my time with each and when the day came and money was right to choose a new horse I went straight to my dealer and got in the seat of a new 16 GM crew. 10 minutes in and I was less excited. I cant truthfully point to one specific thing that turned me off after a long time glorifying the bowtie. I felt strangely underpowered and lacked a feel I have always known. Went back and chose another to drive. Same thing. Wife from passenger seat said she liked our old '11 better? My life is falling apart now. I deal with a childhood friend at my local dealership, he says to me, take a Ford for a drive and see what you think? We live 30 minutes from the Fort Wayne, IN Silverado assembly plant. On our local roads it is bowtie or you go get a car for the most part. Back to origin of this thread I too wanted long term reliability and not being very mechanically inclined didnt want turbo or DI problems. I wanted to stay NA. I guess I feel what I dont know about. So I take the keys to a 5.0 crew cab and head out. Within 5 minutes, wife is grinning next to me, saying things "I told you we shouldve drove one of these last time we bought", and "this is a real truck" End of story We brought her home that day, drove her from north IN to south FL the next week and have loved every day with her since. Good Luck in your decision I say buy the FORD 5.0 but im newly bias
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speeddemon0712 (03-20-2017)
03-20-2017, 03:39 PM
#27
I promise im not here to bash Ford. I'm on the outs with GM and them only offering the 6.2 in premium trim levels.
Yeah, yeah, Cafe standards, whatever.
Its not just that. Consider this, if you want to upgrade from 3.23 to 3.42 gears, GM FORCES you to upgrade to a 20in wheel, at a cost of $2100. That has nothing to do with Cafe, but everything to do with GM being asses.
Meanwhile, Ford puts the EB in everything, and Dodge putting a Hemi in any trim level above a Radio Flyer.
Basically, just to get a 6.2, over the price of a LT trim truck, it will cost me over $10,000. That is absurd.
Tired of playing GMs games
Yeah, yeah, Cafe standards, whatever.
Its not just that. Consider this, if you want to upgrade from 3.23 to 3.42 gears, GM FORCES you to upgrade to a 20in wheel, at a cost of $2100. That has nothing to do with Cafe, but everything to do with GM being asses.
Meanwhile, Ford puts the EB in everything, and Dodge putting a Hemi in any trim level above a Radio Flyer.
Basically, just to get a 6.2, over the price of a LT trim truck, it will cost me over $10,000. That is absurd.
Tired of playing GMs games
03-20-2017, 04:16 PM
#28
Senior Member
After reading your priorities list I would suggest the current gen 5.0 with the 6 speed transmission and 3.73 gears.
The new 10 speed and the new DI 5.0 are not time tested yet. We just don't know how they will do over time.
They have plenty of power and tow really well, honestly they do. The 6.0 GM is hammer reliable but the 2500 hd rides like crap compared to an f-150.
I would have recommended the old 3.5 eco with the 6 speed but if you are so adverse to preventative maintenance that changing the spark-plugs every 40k is a deal breaker than the 5.0 will be a better option for you.
The new 10 speed and the new DI 5.0 are not time tested yet. We just don't know how they will do over time.
They have plenty of power and tow really well, honestly they do. The 6.0 GM is hammer reliable but the 2500 hd rides like crap compared to an f-150.
I would have recommended the old 3.5 eco with the 6 speed but if you are so adverse to preventative maintenance that changing the spark-plugs every 40k is a deal breaker than the 5.0 will be a better option for you.
03-20-2017, 04:55 PM
#29
Senior Member
My screen name alone should be enough to show my path. But further explanation is I have been a 5.3 Silverado driver all adult life. 99 single cab 2wd, 12 ext cab 4x4, 11 crew 4x4. I loved my time with each and when the day came and money was right to choose a new horse I went straight to my dealer and got in the seat of a new 16 GM crew. 10 minutes in and I was less excited. I cant truthfully point to one specific thing that turned me off after a long time glorifying the bowtie. I felt strangely underpowered and lacked a feel I have always known. Went back and chose another to drive. Same thing. Wife from passenger seat said she liked our old '11 better? My life is falling apart now. I deal with a childhood friend at my local dealership, he says to me, take a Ford for a drive and see what you think? We live 30 minutes from the Fort Wayne, IN Silverado assembly plant. On our local roads it is bowtie or you go get a car for the most part. Back to origin of this thread I too wanted long term reliability and not being very mechanically inclined didnt want turbo or DI problems. I wanted to stay NA. I guess I feel what I dont know about. So I take the keys to a 5.0 crew cab and head out. Within 5 minutes, wife is grinning next to me, saying things "I told you we shouldve drove one of these last time we bought", and "this is a real truck" End of story We brought her home that day, drove her from north IN to south FL the next week and have loved every day with her since. Good Luck in your decision I say buy the FORD 5.0 but im newly bias
03-21-2017, 05:30 AM
#30
Senior Member
If reliability is your only concern, I'd vote 6.0 GM. Before anyone gets offended (this is an F150 forum), I'm not saying the 6.0 is the best engine. But if I was gambling and had to roll the dice on which engine would reach 250k miles out of the three choices given, I'd bet on the 6.0. However you feel about turbos on a gas engine aside, I think we can all admit that Ford has had some cam phaser and timing chain issues through the years. The 6.0 is just a simpler engine with less to go wrong. Admittedly, it gives up quite a bit of power (for it's size) due to that simpler design.
All that being said, I'm in the market for a truck myself, and reliability is a big priority for me. But I would not get a 3/4 ton with a gas engine unless it was a heck of a deal. I've driven an F250 with the 6.2 and it felt lethargic and heavy compared to the f150's I've driven. Gas mileage hovered around 14 mpg. I can only imagine the GM 6.0 would be the same or worse, and I don't think I'd be satisfied.
If the Tundra came with $10k in rebates, it might be an option for me.
At this point, balancing purchase price, performance, fuel efficiency, and perceived expected reliability (no, I don't have any data), I'm personally leaning towards an f150 with the 5.0 again (previously owned one and traded). The 5.0 isn't the best at any of the things I mentioned, but in my mind it's a good balance. At least I hope it is if I finally pull the trigger again.
All that being said, I'm in the market for a truck myself, and reliability is a big priority for me. But I would not get a 3/4 ton with a gas engine unless it was a heck of a deal. I've driven an F250 with the 6.2 and it felt lethargic and heavy compared to the f150's I've driven. Gas mileage hovered around 14 mpg. I can only imagine the GM 6.0 would be the same or worse, and I don't think I'd be satisfied.
If the Tundra came with $10k in rebates, it might be an option for me.
At this point, balancing purchase price, performance, fuel efficiency, and perceived expected reliability (no, I don't have any data), I'm personally leaning towards an f150 with the 5.0 again (previously owned one and traded). The 5.0 isn't the best at any of the things I mentioned, but in my mind it's a good balance. At least I hope it is if I finally pull the trigger again.