6.0 GM 2500 Vs next gen 5.0/3.5EB for loooong term ownership?
03-21-2017, 08:29 AM
#31
I cross shopped both and if I can be totally honest I like the way the Chevys and GMCs look better than the Fords, stock vs stock at least, and I found the chevy to be a little more comfortable and maybe rode a tiny bit better...maybe
The 5.3 power deliver is very linear and smooth, I didn't drive the 3.5 a lot, only a quick test drive, but obviously its a bit faster. The 3.5 honestly compares more to a 6.0, but to get the 6.0 you're well into 60k+ for a QC. The 5.3 compares more to the 2.7..the 2.7 is a bit more...lively..peaky, it likes to downshift..but it never feels weak. I really liked driving the 5.3 honestly just pretty effortless.
I prefer the Ford interior and I think the Fords come with more features for the same money.
Also there weren't any deals on QC Chevys when I was looking at them..Ford always has deals on QC F150s
But yeah at around 70 the truck had that weird vibration, they call it chevy shake apparently, and if I dropped to say 60 or so, usually traffic highway speeds someone slows down in front of you or whatever, you slow down then hit the gas to go around and pass there would be a huge thunk in the driveline. If you do internet searches both of these seem to be common issues with the GMs and nothing to really worry about, but these are things I just feel were unacceptable when buying/leasing a fifty thousand dollar pickup.
03-21-2017, 08:43 AM
#32
No fart cans allowed
The 6.0 will most likely be better for long term reliability (as in: multiple hundreds of thousands of miles), for the reasons you outlined already. The 3.5 eco will probably tow better than the 6.0, simply due to the forced induction.
Drive them both, then decide.
Drive them both, then decide.
03-21-2017, 08:46 AM
#33
Senior Member
I cross shopped both and if I can be totally honest I like the way the Chevys and GMCs look better than the Fords, stock vs stock at least, and I found the chevy to be a little more comfortable and maybe rode a tiny bit better...maybe
The 5.3 power deliver is very linear and smooth, I didn't drive the 3.5 a lot, only a quick test drive, but obviously its a bit faster. The 3.5 honestly compares more to a 6.0, but to get the 6.0 you're well into 60k+ for a QC. The 5.3 compares more to the 2.7..the 2.7 is a bit more...lively..peaky, it likes to downshift..but it never feels weak. I really liked driving the 5.3 honestly just pretty effortless.
I prefer the Ford interior and I think the Fords come with more features for the same money.
Also there weren't any deals on QC Chevys when I was looking at them..Ford always has deals on QC F150s
But yeah at around 70 the truck had that weird vibration, they call it chevy shake apparently, and if I dropped to say 60 or so, usually traffic highway speeds someone slows down in front of you or whatever, you slow down then hit the gas to go around and pass there would be a huge thunk in the driveline. If you do internet searches both of these seem to be common issues with the GMs and nothing to really worry about, but these are things I just feel were unacceptable when buying/leasing a fifty thousand dollar pickup.
The 5.3 power deliver is very linear and smooth, I didn't drive the 3.5 a lot, only a quick test drive, but obviously its a bit faster. The 3.5 honestly compares more to a 6.0, but to get the 6.0 you're well into 60k+ for a QC. The 5.3 compares more to the 2.7..the 2.7 is a bit more...lively..peaky, it likes to downshift..but it never feels weak. I really liked driving the 5.3 honestly just pretty effortless.
I prefer the Ford interior and I think the Fords come with more features for the same money.
Also there weren't any deals on QC Chevys when I was looking at them..Ford always has deals on QC F150s
But yeah at around 70 the truck had that weird vibration, they call it chevy shake apparently, and if I dropped to say 60 or so, usually traffic highway speeds someone slows down in front of you or whatever, you slow down then hit the gas to go around and pass there would be a huge thunk in the driveline. If you do internet searches both of these seem to be common issues with the GMs and nothing to really worry about, but these are things I just feel were unacceptable when buying/leasing a fifty thousand dollar pickup.
I have several 2014+ gm 5.3 trucks at my office. They are a joke compared to the Ecoboost with regard to to power. I think it's mainly the torque management nannies. They aren't bad trucks per say but I would much rather have my F150. Fo what it's worth I rotate between about three of these GMs on a day to day basis, and I drive about 400 miles per week in them.
03-21-2017, 12:05 PM
#34
Been shopping for new trucks for over a year now. Dispite the amazing options out there, im unsatisfied with what is available.
Last 2 trucks have been a 1999 5.3 Silverado, which went 177,000mi with very little cost of ownership. Brakes, batteries, ect. Tailgate latch, and a right, front hub.
Thats it.
Currently driving a 2006 ecsb 5.3 with 145,000 on it. It has been equally durable. Another tailgate latch, and a $69 A/C resistor. Thats it. 11yrs of ownership and less than $100 in repairs.
Truth told, if my current truck was a qc, id probably keep it. But, I bought it when I was single. Wife and kids =qc.
Anyhow, I dont turn vehicles over every 3yrs. My next one, ill expect to drive for 12yrs/150,000+mi,and I given current tech, I expect my next one to do it.
I want that time, and mileage without any major issues. I completely exlect disposables to fail, but engine, or transmission issues are completely unacceptable to me at anything under that time/mile frame.
So, options.
Qc, 4wd,and a little more power than my current 5.3.
I pull a 33hp tractor that weighs about 6,000 with everything, and a 23ft Pontoon boat. Dont pull either very often, maybe once a month, and less than 100mi.
All doable with current half tons.
Current 5.0 makes good power, but at 2100rpm,is making about 60ft lbs than the GM 5.3. Next gen Di 5.0 should bring the usable torque down a good bit in the Rpm range. Still waiting on hp/tq figures for the 5.0,but it looks promising. However, Start/Stop tech is NOT something im crazy about. Yeah, tune it out, turn it off, but, if it fails, will it leave me stranded?
Premature starter wear?
Next is the 3.5eb/10spd. On paper, this combo is perfect. Powerband is unbeatable, and is only slightly behind a 24v 5.9 cummins, but with a much longer powerband.
My issue, Did Ford remedy the previous issues? Will I be replacing Turbos in 9yrs at my cost? Cam phasers? Can this engine go 150,000/12yrs with periodic Mx? I dont want to be changing spark plugs every 40k.
Also reading the 10spd runs "lifetime fluid"? Not sure how I feel about that.
Again with the start/stop nonsense.
Now, the wildcard. 2500 6.0 Gm.
Yeah, I know the shortcomings. Horrid mpg, mediocre power, plus a 3/4-ton ride that I dont want.
Flipside. 6.0 Gm is probably the most proven, durable, and simplest engine on the road, period. No cyl deactivation, no Di. Basically, the same 6.0 for the last 20yrs. Not uncommon at all for them to go 250,000 without breaking a sweat. Oilfield fleets love then because they are absurdly cheap to maintain, easy to work on.
Also, say the unthinkable happens, and the engine completely grenades itself. I can have an entire longblock swapped in for less than $1,000.
About 1/10th of what a 5.0,or EB would cost me.
Before you say "Diesel!"
No, just nope. Y'all know the reasons why. On top of which, given my current mileage driven a year (10,000) I can pay for almost 6 YEARS of fuel by buying the 6.0 over a diesel.
Resale value is a moot point. Again, ill be keeping my next truck at least 12yrs. Dont care about resale.
So, can a new Ford outlast 20yr old GM tech?
I WANT a new EB, but fear issues, and cost down the line. Did Ford get it right?
Last 2 trucks have been a 1999 5.3 Silverado, which went 177,000mi with very little cost of ownership. Brakes, batteries, ect. Tailgate latch, and a right, front hub.
Thats it.
Currently driving a 2006 ecsb 5.3 with 145,000 on it. It has been equally durable. Another tailgate latch, and a $69 A/C resistor. Thats it. 11yrs of ownership and less than $100 in repairs.
Truth told, if my current truck was a qc, id probably keep it. But, I bought it when I was single. Wife and kids =qc.
Anyhow, I dont turn vehicles over every 3yrs. My next one, ill expect to drive for 12yrs/150,000+mi,and I given current tech, I expect my next one to do it.
I want that time, and mileage without any major issues. I completely exlect disposables to fail, but engine, or transmission issues are completely unacceptable to me at anything under that time/mile frame.
So, options.
Qc, 4wd,and a little more power than my current 5.3.
I pull a 33hp tractor that weighs about 6,000 with everything, and a 23ft Pontoon boat. Dont pull either very often, maybe once a month, and less than 100mi.
All doable with current half tons.
Current 5.0 makes good power, but at 2100rpm,is making about 60ft lbs than the GM 5.3. Next gen Di 5.0 should bring the usable torque down a good bit in the Rpm range. Still waiting on hp/tq figures for the 5.0,but it looks promising. However, Start/Stop tech is NOT something im crazy about. Yeah, tune it out, turn it off, but, if it fails, will it leave me stranded?
Premature starter wear?
Next is the 3.5eb/10spd. On paper, this combo is perfect. Powerband is unbeatable, and is only slightly behind a 24v 5.9 cummins, but with a much longer powerband.
My issue, Did Ford remedy the previous issues? Will I be replacing Turbos in 9yrs at my cost? Cam phasers? Can this engine go 150,000/12yrs with periodic Mx? I dont want to be changing spark plugs every 40k.
Also reading the 10spd runs "lifetime fluid"? Not sure how I feel about that.
Again with the start/stop nonsense.
Now, the wildcard. 2500 6.0 Gm.
Yeah, I know the shortcomings. Horrid mpg, mediocre power, plus a 3/4-ton ride that I dont want.
Flipside. 6.0 Gm is probably the most proven, durable, and simplest engine on the road, period. No cyl deactivation, no Di. Basically, the same 6.0 for the last 20yrs. Not uncommon at all for them to go 250,000 without breaking a sweat. Oilfield fleets love then because they are absurdly cheap to maintain, easy to work on.
Also, say the unthinkable happens, and the engine completely grenades itself. I can have an entire longblock swapped in for less than $1,000.
About 1/10th of what a 5.0,or EB would cost me.
Before you say "Diesel!"
No, just nope. Y'all know the reasons why. On top of which, given my current mileage driven a year (10,000) I can pay for almost 6 YEARS of fuel by buying the 6.0 over a diesel.
Resale value is a moot point. Again, ill be keeping my next truck at least 12yrs. Dont care about resale.
So, can a new Ford outlast 20yr old GM tech?
I WANT a new EB, but fear issues, and cost down the line. Did Ford get it right?
If you are really concerned about engine longevity, this might be worth looking into. I love both Ford and Chevy but my Tundra was without a single flaw for 6 years and many hard miles of hauling and towing.
I ready recently that they engineered the engine to last at least 600,000 miles with regular maintenance. Saw one with a million miles online recently too.
I think any of the full size trucks nowadays are pretty amazing engineering (except maybe Dodge, sorry)
03-22-2017, 02:06 AM
#35
I recently was faced with the same dilemma of buying my 8-10 year truck(After buying a house and starting a family no money for new truck every 2-3 years). Ended up with a 5.0. love the engine, I also wish it had more low end, but its a monster up high and built really strong to last. As stated before if I was you I would get a 2017 before the new upgrades. The 6.0 Chevy is hard to beat out for reliability. That said I do believe the small gap in reliability between that and the 5.0, the F150 would make you much happier on the day to day. Creature comforts, ride, MPG.
03-22-2017, 08:02 AM
#36
Senior Member
Been shopping for new trucks for over a year now. Dispite the amazing options out there, im unsatisfied with what is available.
Last 2 trucks have been a 1999 5.3 Silverado, which went 177,000mi with very little cost of ownership. Brakes, batteries, ect. Tailgate latch, and a right, front hub.
Thats it.
Currently driving a 2006 ecsb 5.3 with 145,000 on it. It has been equally durable. Another tailgate latch, and a $69 A/C resistor. Thats it. 11yrs of ownership and less than $100 in repairs.
Truth told, if my current truck was a qc, id probably keep it. But, I bought it when I was single. Wife and kids =qc.
Anyhow, I dont turn vehicles over every 3yrs. My next one, ill expect to drive for 12yrs/150,000+mi,and I given current tech, I expect my next one to do it.
I want that time, and mileage without any major issues. I completely exlect disposables to fail, but engine, or transmission issues are completely unacceptable to me at anything under that time/mile frame.
So, options.
Qc, 4wd,and a little more power than my current 5.3.
I pull a 33hp tractor that weighs about 6,000 with everything, and a 23ft Pontoon boat. Dont pull either very often, maybe once a month, and less than 100mi.
All doable with current half tons.
Current 5.0 makes good power, but at 2100rpm,is making about 60ft lbs than the GM 5.3. Next gen Di 5.0 should bring the usable torque down a good bit in the Rpm range. Still waiting on hp/tq figures for the 5.0,but it looks promising. However, Start/Stop tech is NOT something im crazy about. Yeah, tune it out, turn it off, but, if it fails, will it leave me stranded?
Premature starter wear?
Next is the 3.5eb/10spd. On paper, this combo is perfect. Powerband is unbeatable, and is only slightly behind a 24v 5.9 cummins, but with a much longer powerband.
My issue, Did Ford remedy the previous issues? Will I be replacing Turbos in 9yrs at my cost? Cam phasers? Can this engine go 150,000/12yrs with periodic Mx? I dont want to be changing spark plugs every 40k.
Also reading the 10spd runs "lifetime fluid"? Not sure how I feel about that.
Again with the start/stop nonsense.
Now, the wildcard. 2500 6.0 Gm.
Yeah, I know the shortcomings. Horrid mpg, mediocre power, plus a 3/4-ton ride that I dont want.
Flipside. 6.0 Gm is probably the most proven, durable, and simplest engine on the road, period. No cyl deactivation, no Di. Basically, the same 6.0 for the last 20yrs. Not uncommon at all for them to go 250,000 without breaking a sweat. Oilfield fleets love then because they are absurdly cheap to maintain, easy to work on.
Also, say the unthinkable happens, and the engine completely grenades itself. I can have an entire longblock swapped in for less than $1,000.
About 1/10th of what a 5.0,or EB would cost me.
Before you say "Diesel!"
No, just nope. Y'all know the reasons why. On top of which, given my current mileage driven a year (10,000) I can pay for almost 6 YEARS of fuel by buying the 6.0 over a diesel.
Resale value is a moot point. Again, ill be keeping my next truck at least 12yrs. Dont care about resale.
So, can a new Ford outlast 20yr old GM tech?
I WANT a new EB, but fear issues, and cost down the line. Did Ford get it right?
Last 2 trucks have been a 1999 5.3 Silverado, which went 177,000mi with very little cost of ownership. Brakes, batteries, ect. Tailgate latch, and a right, front hub.
Thats it.
Currently driving a 2006 ecsb 5.3 with 145,000 on it. It has been equally durable. Another tailgate latch, and a $69 A/C resistor. Thats it. 11yrs of ownership and less than $100 in repairs.
Truth told, if my current truck was a qc, id probably keep it. But, I bought it when I was single. Wife and kids =qc.
Anyhow, I dont turn vehicles over every 3yrs. My next one, ill expect to drive for 12yrs/150,000+mi,and I given current tech, I expect my next one to do it.
I want that time, and mileage without any major issues. I completely exlect disposables to fail, but engine, or transmission issues are completely unacceptable to me at anything under that time/mile frame.
So, options.
Qc, 4wd,and a little more power than my current 5.3.
I pull a 33hp tractor that weighs about 6,000 with everything, and a 23ft Pontoon boat. Dont pull either very often, maybe once a month, and less than 100mi.
All doable with current half tons.
Current 5.0 makes good power, but at 2100rpm,is making about 60ft lbs than the GM 5.3. Next gen Di 5.0 should bring the usable torque down a good bit in the Rpm range. Still waiting on hp/tq figures for the 5.0,but it looks promising. However, Start/Stop tech is NOT something im crazy about. Yeah, tune it out, turn it off, but, if it fails, will it leave me stranded?
Premature starter wear?
Next is the 3.5eb/10spd. On paper, this combo is perfect. Powerband is unbeatable, and is only slightly behind a 24v 5.9 cummins, but with a much longer powerband.
My issue, Did Ford remedy the previous issues? Will I be replacing Turbos in 9yrs at my cost? Cam phasers? Can this engine go 150,000/12yrs with periodic Mx? I dont want to be changing spark plugs every 40k.
Also reading the 10spd runs "lifetime fluid"? Not sure how I feel about that.
Again with the start/stop nonsense.
Now, the wildcard. 2500 6.0 Gm.
Yeah, I know the shortcomings. Horrid mpg, mediocre power, plus a 3/4-ton ride that I dont want.
Flipside. 6.0 Gm is probably the most proven, durable, and simplest engine on the road, period. No cyl deactivation, no Di. Basically, the same 6.0 for the last 20yrs. Not uncommon at all for them to go 250,000 without breaking a sweat. Oilfield fleets love then because they are absurdly cheap to maintain, easy to work on.
Also, say the unthinkable happens, and the engine completely grenades itself. I can have an entire longblock swapped in for less than $1,000.
About 1/10th of what a 5.0,or EB would cost me.
Before you say "Diesel!"
No, just nope. Y'all know the reasons why. On top of which, given my current mileage driven a year (10,000) I can pay for almost 6 YEARS of fuel by buying the 6.0 over a diesel.
Resale value is a moot point. Again, ill be keeping my next truck at least 12yrs. Dont care about resale.
So, can a new Ford outlast 20yr old GM tech?
I WANT a new EB, but fear issues, and cost down the line. Did Ford get it right?
Why aren't you looking at the new Silverado with 6.2L V8? I hate GM with a passion...over the years their vehicle engineering has been just plain awful. But the new GM trucks with the big V8 are towing just as well as the Ford "Eco"Boost, and recently during testing the big 6.2L V8 got *significantly* better MPGs than the EcoBoost+10 speed while towing.
There is no replacement for displacement. "Eco"Boost is a gimmick. It's a way to get good numbers on paper, at the expense of longevity and fuel and simplicity.
460 lbs/ft of torque, significantly better MPGs, better ride quality, longer lasting with fewer problems... the Silverado 1500 6.2L seems like the obvious choice for a guy like you.
03-22-2017, 08:55 AM
#37
Senior Member
The 6.2 though uses AFM and DI, and is relatively new, so long-term durability isn't known to the level that the 6.0 is. He said power is the least of his concerns, with reliability being #1. Personally, I would agree with you - I think the 6.2 is a great motor and if I were buying a new GM truck, I wouldn't settle for a 5.3. But, given the OP's needs...
I would say bite the bullet and suffer the ride/MPG trade-off and get the bulletproof 6.0 2500, or get the 5.0 F-150 if you want to give up some reliability reputation (may last you 200,000+ though), but gain in the MPG/ride/comfort side of things. If reliability and ease of maintenance (and not maximum power/towing) are your things, I would stay away from the EcoBoost.
I would say bite the bullet and suffer the ride/MPG trade-off and get the bulletproof 6.0 2500, or get the 5.0 F-150 if you want to give up some reliability reputation (may last you 200,000+ though), but gain in the MPG/ride/comfort side of things. If reliability and ease of maintenance (and not maximum power/towing) are your things, I would stay away from the EcoBoost.
03-22-2017, 10:02 AM
#38
Why aren't you looking at the new Silverado with 6.2L V8? I hate GM with a passion...over the years their vehicle engineering has been just plain awful. But the new GM trucks with the big V8 are towing just as well as the Ford "Eco"Boost, and recently during testing the big 6.2L V8 got *significantly* better MPGs than the EcoBoost+10 speed while towing.
There is no replacement for displacement. "Eco"Boost is a gimmick. It's a way to get good numbers on paper, at the expense of longevity and fuel and simplicity.
460 lbs/ft of torque, significantly better MPGs, better ride quality, longer lasting with fewer problems... the Silverado 1500 6.2L seems like the obvious choice for a guy like you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KN5juXz8CE
There is no replacement for displacement. "Eco"Boost is a gimmick. It's a way to get good numbers on paper, at the expense of longevity and fuel and simplicity.
460 lbs/ft of torque, significantly better MPGs, better ride quality, longer lasting with fewer problems... the Silverado 1500 6.2L seems like the obvious choice for a guy like you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KN5juXz8CE
Ecoboost is a gimmick ? Why don't you challenge one with your truck to a towing competition or a drag race ? I love my 5.0 but the numbers don't lie.
I'm unsure where the "better ride" statement comes from ? Almost anyone who has driven both will say the Ford wins the ride contest hands down. The GM has higher cab noise and it has square wheel wells for Pete's sake !!
As far as reliability, hop over on a GM forum like this one and you can find plenty of people posting problems with their trucks. 5.3L seems to like to eat oil, AFM problems, 6.0L has the same oil consumption issue. Early 6.2L had the same problem, but to a lesser degree. Knock sensors getting water in them, crank position sensor wiring melting. Yes, I have a few friends with GMs and they admit they have their fair share of issues, just like any other manufacturer.
For those who drink the Toyota Kool-Aid, let's not even mention the Tundra rusted out frame debacle, or the problems with bed bounce while driving or defective camshafts or defective tailgates...
The following users liked this post:
pb65stang (03-22-2017)
03-22-2017, 10:37 AM
#39
Senior Member
I guess your definition of significant is different than mine. 1.5 MPG better in this not-very-scientific test isn't enough to make me drive a GM.
Ecoboost is a gimmick ? Why don't you challenge one with your truck to a towing competition or a drag race ? I love my 5.0 but the numbers don't lie.
I'm unsure where the "better ride" statement comes from ? Almost anyone who has driven both will say the Ford wins the ride contest hands down. The GM has higher cab noise and it has square wheel wells for Pete's sake !!
As far as reliability, hop over on a GM forum like this one and you can find plenty of people posting problems with their trucks. 5.3L seems to like to eat oil, AFM problems, 6.0L has the same oil consumption issue. Early 6.2L had the same problem, but to a lesser degree. Knock sensors getting water in them, crank position sensor wiring melting. Yes, I have a few friends with GMs and they admit they have their fair share of issues, just like any other manufacturer.
For those who drink the Toyota Kool-Aid, let's not even mention the Tundra rusted out frame debacle, or the problems with bed bounce while driving or defective camshafts or defective tailgates...
Ecoboost is a gimmick ? Why don't you challenge one with your truck to a towing competition or a drag race ? I love my 5.0 but the numbers don't lie.
I'm unsure where the "better ride" statement comes from ? Almost anyone who has driven both will say the Ford wins the ride contest hands down. The GM has higher cab noise and it has square wheel wells for Pete's sake !!
As far as reliability, hop over on a GM forum like this one and you can find plenty of people posting problems with their trucks. 5.3L seems to like to eat oil, AFM problems, 6.0L has the same oil consumption issue. Early 6.2L had the same problem, but to a lesser degree. Knock sensors getting water in them, crank position sensor wiring melting. Yes, I have a few friends with GMs and they admit they have their fair share of issues, just like any other manufacturer.
For those who drink the Toyota Kool-Aid, let's not even mention the Tundra rusted out frame debacle, or the problems with bed bounce while driving or defective camshafts or defective tailgates...
03-22-2017, 12:25 PM
#40
Senior Member
Why aren't you looking at the new Silverado with 6.2L V8? I hate GM with a passion...over the years their vehicle engineering has been just plain awful. But the new GM trucks with the big V8 are towing just as well as the Ford "Eco"Boost, and recently during testing the big 6.2L V8 got *significantly* better MPGs than the EcoBoost+10 speed while towing.
There is no replacement for displacement. "Eco"Boost is a gimmick. It's a way to get good numbers on paper, at the expense of longevity and fuel and simplicity.
460 lbs/ft of torque, significantly better MPGs, better ride quality, longer lasting with fewer problems... the Silverado 1500 6.2L seems like the obvious choice for a guy like you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KN5juXz8CE
There is no replacement for displacement. "Eco"Boost is a gimmick. It's a way to get good numbers on paper, at the expense of longevity and fuel and simplicity.
460 lbs/ft of torque, significantly better MPGs, better ride quality, longer lasting with fewer problems... the Silverado 1500 6.2L seems like the obvious choice for a guy like you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KN5juXz8CE