2018 3.5TT XL SCab with ~35K miles, one owner, light duty, mostly urban/suburban driving, maybe 70% around town/30% xway travel. Approximately 3K miles of light towing (under 4000#). Dealer maintained. Has had the 21B10 reflash performed prior to the expiration date. Never had an issue with the truck so far, but the light has illuminated 3x within the last month. First two times, it went out with a couple of key on/off cycles, but third time it stayed on.

OBD reader showing 2 faults: first, A camshaft Position Timing Over Advanced or System Performance Bank #1; and second, Crankshaft Position Correlation Bank #1 Sensor A.

Does this sound like a sensor/solenoid problem? Or more likely a faulty VVT cam phaser? Got an appointment to take it in later this week and would like to go into service armed with some knowledge.

Thx for the help!
Bill F

 

I have the same issue on a 2019 3.5 eco. I've replaced the cam pos sensor. No help. I have ordered two solenoids and am waiting for the back ordered valve cover gasket . the truck has had the cam phaser recall at 87K I'm at 133k now. I am hoping it's just a solenoid. Once I have the valve cover off I should be able to get a better look at the phaser and chain. If I need to replace the chain set after less than 50k after the recall this truck may be going away and I am done with Ford.

 

I suspect with a 2018, even though you are well within the mileage range, you are out of the 5 year powertrain warranty. It might be worth your time to invest in an ESP through grainger or flood if you plan to keep the truck, then bring it in a couple months later to have it looked at (should be OK to drive if the CEL comes and goes, and stays out of limp mode). That sounds a lot like P0016, which is usually the tell tail sign that the chain is stretched or there is something up with the phasers, causing the cam and crank sensor angle to be out of specification. Its a $3-4k job to get the chain/phasers/guides/etc replaced. Even if its just a solenoid, the diagnostics and repair will likely cost at least half that of the ESP.

It might sound like an odd question, but when was your last oil change? If recent, disregard the question. If you have some miles on the oil change, you could try changing it with motorcraft filter and motorcraft oil and see how it does. These ecoboost engines like good, clean, fresh oil in them to keep the phasers happy.

 

OP: Post actual fault codes.

It will take a bit of homework, but check to see if the suspect parts are covered under the 8/80 federal emissions warranty.

 

Thx for the replies and suggestions. Took it in for diagnostic and strangely, the tech found no stored codes. The light was NOT illuminated at the time, but I thought fault codes were stored until cleared manually. Basically was told to drive it until the light came on again.
To answer in order:
1) I do have an ESP from Flood. 8 yr/75000 miles. Purchased prior to the 3yr/36K factory warranty expiration.
2) Hard to believe the timing chain could be stretched at less than 35K miles. I specifically asked the Service Advisor if that could be causing the fault codes and he pretty much said NO. I have had the 21B10 TSB recall done for the phaser warranty extension.
3) Only 2000 miles on the most recent oil/filter change. Use Motorcraft 10W-30 semi-synthetic and MC filter.
4) I can't get the actual codes at this point. Only have the description of the fault(s). I've read the Federal Emission warranty language and seriously doubt the parts--if any are actually bad--will fall under that warranty. As stated above, I do have a Flood ESP.

 

You are absolutely correct and that tech is full of *&%$. Regardless of whether or not there is an active CEL (check engine light), if there was an active code at any point after the PCM was last cleared, it will be stored as a pending or stored. Its the same deal as when someone would leave their gas cap loose. The PCM recognizes the issue, but needs to go through X number of drive or system test cycles to verify the issue is persistent, then activates a "current" fault, which is when the CEL comes on. If you don't have one already, I would absolutely recommend getting yourself a code reader/OBD diagnostic tool. There are a TON of options, which usually get more expensive with more capabilities. I have been very happy with an OBD dongle and "OBD Fusion" app on my phone. I specifically use a Veepeak BLE, which is sub $30 if using the coupon available right now, but there are a bunch of options out there. With OBD Fusion, you have the option to purchase a ~$15 dollar profile for your truck should you want to diagnose deeper systems like the transmission, airbag, BCM, etc. Otherwise reading, clearing, and even viewing live data for the PCM is free. I used this app to monitor the crank vs cam angle when diagnosing the chain/phaser issues with my 2013 3.5.
1. Good news! Happy to hear you have a backup warranty. You should be covered regardless of the issue, save for your deductible.
2. I totally agree that it would be considered an early failure, but it can happen. If the actual code was P0016, it USUALLY points right to a stretched chain and failing phasers. I would second guess that SA's opinion.
3. Looks like you are good on oil change interval, but doesn't your engine call for 5w30?

 

I did borrow a code reader from a friend, which is how I found the faults listed in my first post. Not sure about the actual code # tho.

Re: Oil....I use whatever is spec'd by Ford. It most likely is 5W-30 and I misquoted, but the oil jug is out in the garage and I didn't walk out to confirm.

 

If you use Forscan you can pull the full code details and description. They will be stored until cleared.

I too doubt it is a "stretched" cam chain. I'm not aware of any owners commenting on that as an issue on these engines.

 

"Stretched" is a common term and perhaps I used it in error; its actually more accurate to say "worn". When I did the chain/phasers/guides on my 2013, I snapped a photo of the new chain hung next to the old chain. There was a notable difference in length. The most frustrating thing about the 3.5 timing gear issues is that nobody can seem to nail down the root cause. Most theorize that "dirty" oil or lack of oil changes can cause the phasers and maybe the solenoids to gum up, which leads to premature main timing chain wear. Unfortunately, its all hearsay. I replaced at 71k and there was NOTHING to say that I would be good to go for the long haul. I parted ways with the truck at 115k due to my lack of confidence in it (among other reasons). Was I in for another chain/phaser job at 140k? Who knows.

To the OP, I would invest in a code reader and wait for the light to come back. Snap a pic or screenshot of the fault code and get her to the dealer to diagnostics.

 

I replaced the vvt solenoids for my p0021 and p0018 codes yesterday. the chain was tight guides looked good. I couldn't see the tensioners to see how far out they were. I replaced both solenoids on bank 2 while I was in there and the truck runs much better and after 200 miles no light.