Engine Stalls and hard to restart
08-13-2013, 07:56 AM
#1
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Engine Stalls and hard to restart
First off lets describe the beast:
1994 F-150 2WD; E4OD Manual XMSN; 5.0 (302HO) Engine; Dual tanks
The stalling seems to be an issue only when at idle after the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine stalls without any warning. No sputtering just dies. Then it takes a while (sometimes 10 minutes) to restart after prolonged cranking. If I keep the idle up at a stop it hasn't stalled (YET). I was thinking fuel issue but I can't see both pumps going out at the same time.
I have already replaced the numerous parts.
The EEC was replaced a year or 2 ago. This was due to a hard stuttering while driving.
The IAT/ACT, fuel pressure regulator, PCV valve and MAP Sensor are new.
The TPS is also new and is adjusted within limits (0.50-1.0 VDC) Idle and (4-5 VDC) full open with 5.0 VDC to PCM.
I've checked the COIL--Good within tolerances
Plugs--All 8 Good (running BOSCH Iridium Platinum)
Distributor/Wires--All Good no breaks and rotator looks good too.
--Today I plan on Looking at the TPS; TFI; plugs again; coil/wires/distributor; O2 sensor; Reseat Fuel Filter; test the fuel pressure and flow from each tank and finally check the relay. Not necessarily in that order easiest to hardest. Then possibly seafoam the beast and smoke out my neighbors...
I AM STUMPED at what else to look at next. ANY and ALL Suggestions would be appreciated.
1994 F-150 2WD; E4OD Manual XMSN; 5.0 (302HO) Engine; Dual tanks
The stalling seems to be an issue only when at idle after the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine stalls without any warning. No sputtering just dies. Then it takes a while (sometimes 10 minutes) to restart after prolonged cranking. If I keep the idle up at a stop it hasn't stalled (YET). I was thinking fuel issue but I can't see both pumps going out at the same time.
I have already replaced the numerous parts.
The EEC was replaced a year or 2 ago. This was due to a hard stuttering while driving.
The IAT/ACT, fuel pressure regulator, PCV valve and MAP Sensor are new.
The TPS is also new and is adjusted within limits (0.50-1.0 VDC) Idle and (4-5 VDC) full open with 5.0 VDC to PCM.
I've checked the COIL--Good within tolerances
Plugs--All 8 Good (running BOSCH Iridium Platinum)
Distributor/Wires--All Good no breaks and rotator looks good too.
--Today I plan on Looking at the TPS; TFI; plugs again; coil/wires/distributor; O2 sensor; Reseat Fuel Filter; test the fuel pressure and flow from each tank and finally check the relay. Not necessarily in that order easiest to hardest. Then possibly seafoam the beast and smoke out my neighbors...
I AM STUMPED at what else to look at next. ANY and ALL Suggestions would be appreciated.
08-13-2013, 05:01 PM
#2
First off lets describe the beast:
1994 F-150 2WD; E4OD Manual XMSN; 5.0 (302HO) Engine; Dual tanks
The stalling seems to be an issue only when at idle after the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine stalls without any warning. No sputtering just dies. Then it takes a while (sometimes 10 minutes) to restart after prolonged cranking. If I keep the idle up at a stop it hasn't stalled (YET). I was thinking fuel issue but I can't see both pumps going out at the same time.
I have already replaced the numerous parts.
The EEC was replaced a year or 2 ago. This was due to a hard stuttering while driving.
The IAT/ACT, fuel pressure regulator, PCV valve and MAP Sensor are new.
The TPS is also new and is adjusted within limits (0.50-1.0 VDC) Idle and (4-5 VDC) full open with 5.0 VDC to PCM.
I've checked the COIL--Good within tolerances
Plugs--All 8 Good (running BOSCH Iridium Platinum)
Distributor/Wires--All Good no breaks and rotator looks good too.
--Today I plan on Looking at the TPS; TFI; plugs again; coil/wires/distributor; O2 sensor; Reseat Fuel Filter; test the fuel pressure and flow from each tank and finally check the relay. Not necessarily in that order easiest to hardest. Then possibly seafoam the beast and smoke out my neighbors...
I AM STUMPED at what else to look at next. ANY and ALL Suggestions would be appreciated.
1994 F-150 2WD; E4OD Manual XMSN; 5.0 (302HO) Engine; Dual tanks
The stalling seems to be an issue only when at idle after the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine stalls without any warning. No sputtering just dies. Then it takes a while (sometimes 10 minutes) to restart after prolonged cranking. If I keep the idle up at a stop it hasn't stalled (YET). I was thinking fuel issue but I can't see both pumps going out at the same time.
I have already replaced the numerous parts.
The EEC was replaced a year or 2 ago. This was due to a hard stuttering while driving.
The IAT/ACT, fuel pressure regulator, PCV valve and MAP Sensor are new.
The TPS is also new and is adjusted within limits (0.50-1.0 VDC) Idle and (4-5 VDC) full open with 5.0 VDC to PCM.
I've checked the COIL--Good within tolerances
Plugs--All 8 Good (running BOSCH Iridium Platinum)
Distributor/Wires--All Good no breaks and rotator looks good too.
--Today I plan on Looking at the TPS; TFI; plugs again; coil/wires/distributor; O2 sensor; Reseat Fuel Filter; test the fuel pressure and flow from each tank and finally check the relay. Not necessarily in that order easiest to hardest. Then possibly seafoam the beast and smoke out my neighbors...
I AM STUMPED at what else to look at next. ANY and ALL Suggestions would be appreciated.
IAT/ACT? Have you checked the IAC? Pulled codes?
08-18-2013, 12:57 PM
#3
you say it has yet to stall if you keep it at a high idle when stopped. im assuming you have your throttle pedal pressed to acquire this.
So a two things.
The throttle valves are they set proper with the small bolt stopper.
The Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) has it been checked, cleaned, replaced anytime latley. sounds like it is not being able to allow air threw it after the high idle cold start is finished... when it closes off to slow idle down.
Just the two thoughts for now... let me know if you thought of it and or tried to source that yet or not.
So a two things.
The throttle valves are they set proper with the small bolt stopper.
The Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) has it been checked, cleaned, replaced anytime latley. sounds like it is not being able to allow air threw it after the high idle cold start is finished... when it closes off to slow idle down.
Just the two thoughts for now... let me know if you thought of it and or tried to source that yet or not.
08-19-2013, 02:01 PM
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Ok yes the IAC was replaced stopping the surging issues I had a month ago.
The throttle stop Ive never messed with but will look into it.
I have recently pulled the fuel line between the filter and engine to check the fuel pumps. Good flow ran a quart out of each. Fuel looks good also.
Pulled plugs (BOSH Platinum PLUS2 Not iridium as I said before) Cleaned and re installed. Got new plug cables on order and will have installed today.
I just got back from parts store at which time the truck died again and failed to restart at all. Turned over but no go. Pushed it home. Shes got good spark from the Ignition coil--also tested a new one.
Installed a new cap and rotor and replaced the ICM also at this time.
I'm at a loss for what else to do. On the way I tried to pop start the truck but wouldn't work either.
I hate to take it elsewhere to get worked on and them to tell me they replaced something I already have.
The throttle stop Ive never messed with but will look into it.
I have recently pulled the fuel line between the filter and engine to check the fuel pumps. Good flow ran a quart out of each. Fuel looks good also.
Pulled plugs (BOSH Platinum PLUS2 Not iridium as I said before) Cleaned and re installed. Got new plug cables on order and will have installed today.
I just got back from parts store at which time the truck died again and failed to restart at all. Turned over but no go. Pushed it home. Shes got good spark from the Ignition coil--also tested a new one.
Installed a new cap and rotor and replaced the ICM also at this time.
I'm at a loss for what else to do. On the way I tried to pop start the truck but wouldn't work either.
I hate to take it elsewhere to get worked on and them to tell me they replaced something I already have.
08-19-2013, 02:18 PM
#5
Ok yes the IAC was replaced stopping the surging issues I had a month ago.
The throttle stop Ive never messed with but will look into it.
I have recently pulled the fuel line between the filter and engine to check the fuel pumps. Good flow ran a quart out of each. Fuel looks good also.
Pulled plugs (BOSH Platinum PLUS2 Not iridium as I said before) Cleaned and re installed. Got new plug cables on order and will have installed today.
I just got back from parts store at which time the truck died again and failed to restart at all. Turned over but no go. Pushed it home. Shes got good spark from the Ignition coil--also tested a new one.
Installed a new cap and rotor and replaced the ICM also at this time.
I'm at a loss for what else to do. On the way I tried to pop start the truck but wouldn't work either.
I hate to take it elsewhere to get worked on and them to tell me they replaced something I already have.
The throttle stop Ive never messed with but will look into it.
I have recently pulled the fuel line between the filter and engine to check the fuel pumps. Good flow ran a quart out of each. Fuel looks good also.
Pulled plugs (BOSH Platinum PLUS2 Not iridium as I said before) Cleaned and re installed. Got new plug cables on order and will have installed today.
I just got back from parts store at which time the truck died again and failed to restart at all. Turned over but no go. Pushed it home. Shes got good spark from the Ignition coil--also tested a new one.
Installed a new cap and rotor and replaced the ICM also at this time.
I'm at a loss for what else to do. On the way I tried to pop start the truck but wouldn't work either.
I hate to take it elsewhere to get worked on and them to tell me they replaced something I already have.
Also, I frequently give this link to some ignition system tests. You can try it if you want even on anything that's already been replaced.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_...d_module_1.php
Last edited by Forge-World-FORD; 08-19-2013 at 02:23 PM.
08-19-2013, 02:32 PM
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Ive tried to pull codes but haven't been able to get any to flash. I need to get a code reader.
Anything else you might suggest.
And once again once cooled down and sits for a hour or 2 she starts... but dies once reaching operating temp for a few minutes
UPDATE--- Tried to read the codes off the beast with a code reader and a NO GO. Just beeps as soon as I hook the reader up.
Now I am leaning to the EEC being bad again. What do ya'll think?
Anything else you might suggest.
And once again once cooled down and sits for a hour or 2 she starts... but dies once reaching operating temp for a few minutes
UPDATE--- Tried to read the codes off the beast with a code reader and a NO GO. Just beeps as soon as I hook the reader up.
Now I am leaning to the EEC being bad again. What do ya'll think?
Last edited by BC Truck; 08-19-2013 at 07:36 PM.
09-06-2013, 07:12 PM
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Newest of the elaborate series of problems.
I had the EEC repaired and reinstalled it back into the truck today. I am still unable to read any codes off the computer. Tried a code reader and all it does is beep continuously. I tried to paperclip method as I had done in the past before first replacing the EEC. NOTHING!!!!
I have tested all the wires involved in keying up the KOEO Test to the EEC harness and they check out. No shorts or opens. Cant seem to figure out why the KOEO wont work unless the computer is the issue?
Any thoughts?
I had the EEC repaired and reinstalled it back into the truck today. I am still unable to read any codes off the computer. Tried a code reader and all it does is beep continuously. I tried to paperclip method as I had done in the past before first replacing the EEC. NOTHING!!!!
I have tested all the wires involved in keying up the KOEO Test to the EEC harness and they check out. No shorts or opens. Cant seem to figure out why the KOEO wont work unless the computer is the issue?
Any thoughts?
Last edited by BC Truck; 09-07-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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09-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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My only thoughts is on PIN 30 for the EEC module. This one is for the Clutch interlock sensor. A few other posts I have read said this is to ring out as a ground when the shifter is in neutral. I think that is for the E4OD auto XMSN. Mine is a M5A2 XMSN.
Am I correct in assuming that there is NO neutral switch on these XMSN's?
Does this PIN 30 still supposed to be showing grounded when rang out?
It looks to me to be wired into all the sensors on the wiring diagram. NOT a ground.
I think my next step in this will be to take it to Ford and have them look the machine over for issues.
Any suggestions before I dump money to FORD?
Am I correct in assuming that there is NO neutral switch on these XMSN's?
Does this PIN 30 still supposed to be showing grounded when rang out?
It looks to me to be wired into all the sensors on the wiring diagram. NOT a ground.
I think my next step in this will be to take it to Ford and have them look the machine over for issues.
Any suggestions before I dump money to FORD?
09-08-2013, 12:55 PM
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Looking further into this I tested a few possibilities from the EEC test connector..Ignition OFF and ON
STO to Sig Return
=OFF= 15.9 ohm & 0.003VDC =ON= 2.378ohm & 0.208VDC
Sig RTN to STI
=OFF= 2.95 ohm & 0.034 VDC =ON= 2.789K & 4.78 VDC
STI to STO
=OFF= cont tested at 0.181 and Ohm just flashed open (OL) and 0.333
& 0.36 VDC
=ON= cont was open (OL) and 2.869K ohm & 4.99 VDC
The STO and SIG RTN are the two connectors on my reader that show the codes. Should there be any voltage on this pathway until the codes are flashed out?
The STO is an internal link in the EEC only wiring is to the test connector.
The SIG RTN meets up with all the sensors. Im going tot try disconnecting each sensor to see if any stop the Signal to the reader. Well thats my thoughts so far.
STO to Sig Return
=OFF= 15.9 ohm & 0.003VDC =ON= 2.378ohm & 0.208VDC
Sig RTN to STI
=OFF= 2.95 ohm & 0.034 VDC =ON= 2.789K & 4.78 VDC
STI to STO
=OFF= cont tested at 0.181 and Ohm just flashed open (OL) and 0.333
& 0.36 VDC
=ON= cont was open (OL) and 2.869K ohm & 4.99 VDC
The STO and SIG RTN are the two connectors on my reader that show the codes. Should there be any voltage on this pathway until the codes are flashed out?
The STO is an internal link in the EEC only wiring is to the test connector.
The SIG RTN meets up with all the sensors. Im going tot try disconnecting each sensor to see if any stop the Signal to the reader. Well thats my thoughts so far.