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EDIT: Added pictures, TT dry weight info, and corrected WDH weight...among other figures.
Potential first timer here, just want to double check my numbers with those more experienced.
TV: 2019 3.5 Eco 6.5' bed, 3.55 rear, max tow pkg, only other modification on truck is bilstein 5100's set at 1.75.
GVWR: 7050 (per door sticker)
Payload:1545 (per door sticker)
Ideal towing scenario, 2 adults (300lbs), various gear in cab (up to 100lbs), 2 dirt bikes in the bed (500lbs wet), full fresh tank (342lbs@41gal), generator mounted above propane tanks (100 150lbs), various gear/food in TT(100 200lbs), Fastway E2 WDH (33 103lbs).
Knowing that the tow/payload ratings on the truck are using SAE J2807, I can exclude the passengers and hitch from the calc, correct? That being said, I am getting a loaded trailer weight of 4595 4995, with 597 650 on the hitch @ 13%, for a total payload of 1197 1653 which is over capacity, but still potentially workable with only a half full 36 gal tank in the truck and shifting more cargo to the TT?
Last edited by bdalton; May 29, 2020 at 06:12 PM.
Reason: my ignorance
Ideal towing scenario, 2 adults (300lbs), various gear in cab (100lbs), 2 dirt bikes (500lbs wet), full fresh tank (342lbs@41gal), generator mounted above propane tanks (100lbs), various gear/food in TT(100lbs), Fastway E2 roundbar hitch (33lbs).
Knowing that the tow/payload ratings on the truck are using SAE J2807, I can exclude the passengers and hitch from the calc, correct? That being said, I am getting a loaded trailer weight of 4595, with 597 on the hitch @ 13%, for a total payload of 1197 which is within spec, but is it a realistic picture and would this be a comfortable/safe tow?
Start over.
1. Brochure Weight - Most trailer are at least a couple hundred pounds heavy over the as built weight (that is calculated using minimum weight parts to give the most advantageous marketing), the weight you quote is for a zero option trailer, also dry with no batteries or propane tanks (normally).
I suspect a real world trailer will weigh around 4500 lb and most of the gain will be tongue weight.
Curb Weight of the truck will be around GVWR - Payload if you have added zero accessories. Ford allows around 1% tolerance stack when calculating for payload so you.
5600 x .13 = 728 lb Tongue Weight
33 lb E2 WDH (May work, no experience)
Payload = 1545 - Weight of Heavier Tires and Wheels and any other additions. Right off the top of my head I'm guessing around 100 lb (20 per tire + 5 per wheel) = 1445
1445 - 400 (Passengers and Gear) = 1045 lb
1045 - 33 lb E2 = 1012 lb
1012 - 728 = 384 lb
Estimated GVW of Truck = 6666 lb
Estimated GVW of Trailer = 5600 lb
Estimated GCW of Combo = 12266 lb
I fudged slighly on the 100 lb in trailer
I bet with riding gear, tools and liquids it ends up heavier than that (I bet you end up more like 6000 by the time all is said in done. We always end up needing more than we planned)
Most people will tell you to use 13% of GVWR of trailer but if you really only haul two dirt bikes that's overkill on a toy hauler.
The only real worry I have is the fact that the tongue may end up heavier than anticipated. A well built toy hauler starts out tongue heavy to offset the heavy load in the back. (I trust manufacturers specs about as far as I can throw your 5xxx errrr... 4xxx pound trailer).
Knowing that the tow/payload ratings on the truck are using SAE J2807, I can exclude the passengers and hitch from the calc, correct?
If that were true, you could load four 300lb adults in your truck and still have the payload on your sticker, as if that 1200lb did not add weight to the truck.
The only thing that gets excluded from *some* calculations is 150lb for a driver. Payload is not one of those, so you always have to subtract the weight of all persons from your payload.
If that were true, you could load four 300lb adults in your truck and still have the payload on your sticker, as if that 1200lb did not add weight to the truck.
The only thing that gets excluded from *some* calculations is 150lb for a driver. Payload is not one of those, so you always have to subtract the weight of all persons from your payload.
I suspect that while Ford RV & Trailer Towing Guide says that the latest variation of J2807 (The one that cost $78 unless you are an SAE Member) requires roughly 370 lb. A 2018 Screw 145 4x4 XLT 3.5EB (Based on 33% Option Acceptance most likely trim) a 16100/10700 Rating which means it's TVRTW must be roughly 5400 lb - Payload was roughly 1950 lb with no additional options. So a calculated curb of 5050 lb. The only way I can get to those numbers is Driver + Passenger + Towing Equipment. A slight increase in curb weight in 2019 required Ford to increase GCWR to 16200 to keep the 10700 Tow Rating. The photos I have seen testing appear to show XLT Trim.
The truck in my sig has a slightly lower payload due to FX4, PEG and Nav although the Swaybar was a little lighter.
*TVRTW = Tow Vehicle Ready to Tow Weight
PS I'm surprised some of the SAE Members on this site haven't looked and told us what is required. I know they can't release the document but they can tell us how much weight the TW has to carry.
Ignore dry weights and manufactured tongue weights, they are in the football field, somewhere, but about as accurate as shooting a bee with a BB gun at a mile away. Take the trailers GVWR and use that in your calculations. It is the most the trailer should ever weigh, and if packed right and not over packed, will be well under it. Multiply by .13 will give you a good estimate on tongue weight at 13%. So a 7600 GVWR trailer @ 13% is 988 pounds, plus say a Blue Ox weighing in at 80 pounds, you have 1068 pounds of payload required at max weight. Then look at the Cargo Carrying Capacity, this is where they base dry weight from by subtracting it from GVWR. It is close, but not accurate. There is also a full water tank weight. Some trailers have a lot of CCC, some have less than 1200 pounds. Figure at 2/3rds to 3/4 that weight, so if its 1500, figure in roughly 1000 pounds of stuff that is carried in it. So as an example, the GVWR is 7600, the CCC is 1500, and factor in roughly 1000 of cargo and water for 7100 pounds wet ready to travel weight, multiplied by 13%, you need roughly 1000 pounds of payload.
The only way to know for sure if the truck has that amount left is to load it travel ready with the people in it, a full tank of gas and put it on the scales. Subtract the scale weight from the trucks GVWR and see if you have it.
If that were true, you could load four 300lb adults in your truck and still have the payload on your sticker, as if that 1200lb did not add weight to the truck.
The only thing that gets excluded from *some* calculations is 150lb for a driver. Payload is not one of those, so you always have to subtract the weight of all persons from your payload.
Understood. I came across this https://www.f150forum.com/f118/towin...2/#post6599688 by another poster and ran with it before reading further down. In hindsight, I see where my logic was flawed. I'll update my OP.
Ignore dry weights and manufactured tongue weights, they are in the football field, somewhere, but about as accurate as shooting a bee with a BB gun at a mile away. Take the trailers GVWR and use that in your calculations. It is the most the trailer should ever weigh, and if packed right and not over packed, will be well under it. Multiply by .13 will give you a good estimate on tongue weight at 13%. So a 7600 GVWR trailer @ 13% is 988 pounds, plus say a Blue Ox weighing in at 80 pounds, you have 1068 pounds of payload required at max weight. Then look at the Cargo Carrying Capacity, this is where they base dry weight from by subtracting it from GVWR. It is close, but not accurate. There is also a full water tank weight. Some trailers have a lot of CCC, some have less than 1200 pounds. Figure at 2/3rds to 3/4 that weight, so if its 1500, figure in roughly 1000 pounds of stuff that is carried in it. So as an example, the GVWR is 7600, the CCC is 1500, and factor in roughly 1000 of cargo and water for 7100 pounds wet ready to travel weight, multiplied by 13%, you need roughly 1000 pounds of payload.
The only way to know for sure if the truck has that amount left is to load it travel ready with the people in it, a full tank of gas and put it on the scales. Subtract the scale weight from the trucks GVWR and see if you have it.
Thanks for the feedback. Hard to put it on the scales before I've made a purchase. Regardless...using what you've said:
TT GVWR = 7450 @ 13% yields roughly a 970 TW
TT CCC = 3272 (of which I'll never fully use), so 7450 - 3272 yields roughly a Dry Weight of 4178
Adding in:
2x full propane tanks of 100
1 Small cell battery that typically comes installed of 25
Max fresh water weight of 342
Generator+rack of 100+50
Food/gear/tools/misc of 200
I'm getting 4995, or just shy of 5000 loaded for my needs, yielding 650 TW @ 13%
103 for the WDH
300 for passengers
500 for bikes in bed
100 (while unlikely) for all other random junk in the cab.
Put's total Payload at over capacity by 108 lbs.
Not terrible, but still over on paper. Now theoretically with a 36 gal tank in the truck, I could fall just under capacity; at a half full tank, shifting items from the cab to the TT, or not filling the fresh tank to full, and be okay if those are decently accurate numbers...which is why I am on here rather than in the finance office of the TT dealer. Feel free to point out any gaps in my logic here, please.
Thanks for the feedback. Hard to put it on the scales before I've made a purchase. Regardless...using what you've said:
TT GVWR = 7450 @ 13% yields roughly a 970 TW
TT CCC = 3272 (of which I'll never fully use), so 7450 - 3272 yields roughly a Dry Weight of 4178
Adding in:
2x full propane tanks of 100
1 Small cell battery that typically comes installed of 25
Max fresh water weight of 342
Generator+rack of 100+50
Food/gear/tools/misc of 200
I'm getting 4995, or just shy of 5000 loaded for my needs, yielding 650 TW @ 13%
103 for the WDH
300 for passengers
500 for bikes in bed
100 (while unlikely) for all other random junk in the cab.
Put's total Payload at over capacity by 108 lbs.
Not terrible, but still over on paper. Now theoretically with a 36 gal tank in the truck, I could fall just under capacity; at a half full tank, shifting items from the cab to the TT, or not filling the fresh tank to full, and be okay if those are decently accurate numbers...which is why I am on here rather than in the finance office of the TT dealer. Feel free to point out any gaps in my logic here, please.
There you go, now you are on the right track. It is all about distribution. Having a large CCC on the trailer helps too. Mine has 2300 CCC, I have about 1200# with a full FWT in mine after weighing it. After 4 years, it has remained pretty much within 150# from our first trip. I have a few items added to the front pass through that weren't there the first year, mainly 2x6 PT lumber for leveling the trailer. You also have to keep in mind little things like this that add weight. You could go with the light weight plastic leveling blocks, but they tend to crack or sink in if the ground is too hard and uneven, or too soft. I have both. I have a stack because there are times when a site may be too low at one end to get the leveling jacks down enough, and have to stack a few up to level it.
Math Check
