The HDPP misconception
09-26-2017, 04:14 PM
#11
Senior Member
This statement is assuming that the pin weight is the limiter on the tow rating, which may or may not be true. I haven't looked, but is there anywhere that Ford lists a max pin weight on the HDPP (or even regular F150)? And is the conventional tow rating of that same truck also 10.5k?
09-26-2017, 04:20 PM
#12
Senior Member
Never listen to a salesman as they are just that, salesmen. They have no training related to understanding what they are selling.
To state that the HDPP is stand alone is in error. As stated over and over again here, payload is the primary limiting factor in towing. Almost all trucks will hit payload capacity before their towing capacity. The increased payload will allow for a higher tongue or pin weight, which is part of your payload.
The tongue or pin weight is supported by the payload of the tow vehicle and becomes part of that total.
It would seem this is another salesperson who does not fully understand the vehicle they are selling.
To state that the HDPP is stand alone is in error. As stated over and over again here, payload is the primary limiting factor in towing. Almost all trucks will hit payload capacity before their towing capacity. The increased payload will allow for a higher tongue or pin weight, which is part of your payload.
The tongue or pin weight is supported by the payload of the tow vehicle and becomes part of that total.
It would seem this is another salesperson who does not fully understand the vehicle they are selling.
09-26-2017, 04:37 PM
#13
I not going to say it’s illegal or it’s not and it’s up to you what you do with your truck. Some states are starting target RVs but I don’t know what weights they’re checking. If anything I hope it helps people understand the ratings a bit better and payload is not a free pass to load up the pin/hitch weights.
09-26-2017, 05:10 PM
#14
In a vacuum, HDPP does not increase towing capacity, I get that. But in a real world scenario it certainly does. I may be able to tow 10,500 lbs with just myself and no gear, which we all know would not happen. However, having HDPP may allow me to have 5 passengers, gear and tow 10,500. Without HDPP and with passengers/gear I wouldn't be able to get close to legally towing 10,500 lbs.
The following users liked this post:
Tyler L (10-05-2017)
09-26-2017, 05:10 PM
#15
This statement is assuming that the pin weight is the limiter on the tow rating, which may or may not be true. I haven't looked, but is there anywhere that Ford lists a max pin weight on the HDPP (or even regular F150)? And is the conventional tow rating of that same truck also 10.5k?
Trailer king pin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin load weight and weight of
passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These
ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.
passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These
ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.
By the logic of this thread though, if I were to go buy a 2018 3.5EB non-HDPP 2x4 157" screw with a 13,200 lb tow rating I could theoretically handle a 1980 lb pin weight(.15*13200) and still be legal since that same configuration can theoretically have a 2240 lb payload and MIGHT skirt by on the new 4050 lb RAWR.
The same truck with HDPP has a 2870 lb payload and 4800 lb RAWR but because the GCWR is lower(17100 instead of 18400) it therefore cannot handle as much pin weight?
Last edited by mass-hole; 09-26-2017 at 05:18 PM.
09-26-2017, 05:42 PM
#16
Senior Member
I think mass-hole nailed it, with these new trucks with high factory payload ratings we 'may' be ok with a non-hdpp depending on truck options. Therefore the hdpp won't impact the actual tow ratings as we were within specs without, hdpp would then just help your payload for hauling.
The previous gen often were maxed out on payload waaaay before tow ratings and therefore the hdpp 'increased' tow rating (or made it possible to get to the stated tow rating).
The previous gen often were maxed out on payload waaaay before tow ratings and therefore the hdpp 'increased' tow rating (or made it possible to get to the stated tow rating).
09-26-2017, 06:01 PM
#17
I think mass-hole nailed it, with these new trucks with high factory payload ratings we 'may' be ok with a non-hdpp depending on truck options. Therefore the hdpp won't impact the actual tow ratings as we were within specs without, hdpp would then just help your payload for hauling.
The previous gen often were maxed out on payload waaaay before tow ratings and therefore the hdpp 'increased' tow rating (or made it possible to get to the stated tow rating).
The previous gen often were maxed out on payload waaaay before tow ratings and therefore the hdpp 'increased' tow rating (or made it possible to get to the stated tow rating).
If this is true and ford is saying that you should be buying a non-HDPP truck to handle anything over 1700 lbs pin weight then its a fluke and is unsafe. They clearly dont make a statement that an F150's maximum pin weight shall not exceed XXXX lbs and limit ALL trucks to one rating.
The old trucks were not at a disadvantage to the new ones if you had the max-tow package. They had up to a 7700 lb GVWR and would hit the basically the same payloads as the current trucks can. The old hitches were only rated for 1150 lbs tongue though.
Last edited by mass-hole; 09-26-2017 at 06:11 PM.
09-26-2017, 06:22 PM
#18
FYI there’s no f150 rated to tow a 13,200 fifth wheel. I think the max is 11400 for any screw combo. Ford doesn’t give a max pin rating from what I’ve found, it’s a grey area where the real number would make them look bad so they ignore it.
09-26-2017, 07:28 PM
#20
Senior Member
I said never listen to a salesman as they are just that, a salesmen. You as the purchaser are responsible for knowing your needs and how that relate to the vehicle you are purchasing. To many vehicle salespeople have made statement during a sale that were erroneous to say the least. We have see that over and over again from people on this site alone.
I still stand by my statement that HDPP stands alone from towing is an error.
The following users liked this post:
Tyler L (10-05-2017)