Fearful of the Ecoboost
03-10-2011, 06:41 PM
#1
Fearful of the Ecoboost
I have yet to order my truck because i need some opinions. I understand the Eb gets better fuel economy then the 5.0 and 6.2 and close to the same HP as the 5.0. But my fears are as followed,
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
03-10-2011, 06:57 PM
#2
I have yet to order my truck because i need some opinions. I understand the Eb gets better fuel economy then the 5.0 and 6.2 and close to the same HP as the 5.0. But my fears are as followed,
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
2) Give it some time someone will find a way to flash/tune the ecu and then not have it leave the breadcrumbs it leaves now that can get you in trouble. And I have heard there are 'ways' to make the ECU not read anything at all, ZILTCHO! Can't prove anything when you have something that is dead. Just what I heard.
3) It's not had any problems now for 3 yrs in the SHO and other few cars it's in. And I just saw something about the 2012 SHO EB going up to 400HP. If that's true, I'm sure they've retuned it and tweaked a few internals and got it up 35HP that easily.
03-10-2011, 08:21 PM
#3
This is not a new engine design, and has actually been improved on to be "Ford Tough" in the F150. The engine is built very heavy-duty for the truck application, and the Borg-Warner turbos are heavy-duty and also have been proven for several years. With Ford having their truck reputation on the line, I doubt they are taking the risk of cutting corners on toughness and reliability.
03-10-2011, 08:21 PM
#4
1) Maintenance wise no. Repair wise, not terrible. By the time the warranty is up if you need a turbo replacement they won't be that bad. Turbo's aren't that complicated really..
2) Give it some time someone will find a way to flash/tune the ecu and then not have it leave the breadcrumbs it leaves now that can get you in trouble. And I have heard there are 'ways' to make the ECU not read anything at all, ZILTCHO! Can't prove anything when you have something that is dead. Just what I heard.
3) It's not had any problems now for 3 yrs in the SHO and other few cars it's in. And I just saw something about the 2012 SHO EB going up to 400HP. If that's true, I'm sure they've retuned it and tweaked a few internals and got it up 35HP that easily.
2) Give it some time someone will find a way to flash/tune the ecu and then not have it leave the breadcrumbs it leaves now that can get you in trouble. And I have heard there are 'ways' to make the ECU not read anything at all, ZILTCHO! Can't prove anything when you have something that is dead. Just what I heard.
3) It's not had any problems now for 3 yrs in the SHO and other few cars it's in. And I just saw something about the 2012 SHO EB going up to 400HP. If that's true, I'm sure they've retuned it and tweaked a few internals and got it up 35HP that easily.
03-10-2011, 09:10 PM
#5
This is not a new engine design, and has actually been improved on to be "Ford Tough" in the F150. The engine is built very heavy-duty for the truck application, and the Borg-Warner turbos are heavy-duty and also have been proven for several years. With Ford having their truck reputation on the line, I doubt they are taking the risk of cutting corners on toughness and reliability.
03-10-2011, 09:18 PM
#6
Retired Sr NCO
There is always a trail of breadcrumbs when you mod the ECU. The Corvette comunity still can't figure out how to alter the ECU and "tune" the motor without GM finding it. Even if it is put back to stock, you can still find out it was messed with.
Reliability is not a major concern. As others have said the engine has been around for a little while.
With performance you can have 2 of the 3- Cheap, fast, reliable. You can't have all 3. When you start to mod the engine, you give up one of the choices.
Reliability is not a major concern. As others have said the engine has been around for a little while.
With performance you can have 2 of the 3- Cheap, fast, reliable. You can't have all 3. When you start to mod the engine, you give up one of the choices.
03-10-2011, 09:23 PM
#7
Go read the forums on Mazda, Subi, Bmw, mitsu etc. Of course there are problems when you push things waaaay beyond what they can handle. Modest mods are not causing problems in the SHO or any other turbo applicatuon. I've watched my friends blow stuff up because they just keep turning it up..
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03-10-2011, 09:29 PM
#8
I'm fearful that when people figure out how to make these tunes undetectable by Ford that it's going to be bad for everyone else. Ford isn't going to eat the cost of all the warranty claims they will simply pass the cost on to the consumer and the price of our trucks will go up even more. That's what they did with the diesels my 2008 King Ranch was around 56k and the same truck in 2010 was almost 63k
03-10-2011, 09:31 PM
#9
I Like Tires
Originally Posted by esp660
I have yet to order my truck because i need some opinions. I understand the Eb gets better fuel economy then the 5.0 and 6.2 and close to the same HP as the 5.0. But my fears are as followed,
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
1.How expensive is it to service a turbo motor?
2. Is it true you cant mod it in way? (programmer/exhaust)
3. It is underdeveloped? Being such a new motor and as far as i know never done in a production Ford truck is it reliable?
Thanks guys in advance,
ROB
2.) Uhhmm from some thread I just read on here about a letter Ford put out to dealers servicing warranties, No! Do not mod. For now they are very serious on this as they know people are reluctant of this motor so they don't want anyone modding it and complaining Ford built a crap motor when the mods caused the problem. Programmers are a No No, Exhaust is a No No as it may cause over-speed of the turbos which is a huge problem, and if I recall correctly aftermarket intakes are a No No. If any of these mods are found in the process of servicing the truck the warranty is voided on the spot.
3.) Underdeveloped? I'd say hardly, it's been in the Sho for a few years now and the F150 is there poster child and #1 selling vehicle. If there past is any representation of there current state, and I'm referring to Govt. bail outs, they make smart business decisions and they won't risk the F150 name if they weren't 100% sure this wasn't a good idea.
03-10-2011, 09:42 PM
#10
I Like Tires
I found the Thread you can read the post here --> https://www.f150forum.com/f70/thinki...coboost-84773/
But here is the gist of it:
But here is the gist of it:
I have been doing some research on putting a tuner on the ecoboost. Seems that since the 6.0 mess Ford has gotten smarter. Also seems that some have blown the eco in the Taurus SHO's. You can make up your own mind.
I found this on FTE in a closed thread about "can tuners be detected" "And is also why ALL of the new Ford turbocharged vehicle PCM's are now encrypted by Bosch"
From yellow bullet, a racing forum:
To: All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealerships
Subject: Aftermarket Modifications – Warranty Cancellation
BACKGROUND
Aftermarket companies (referred to as "tuners") attempt to increase an engine's torque and power output beyond the design limits which may cause powertrain failures. This is often accomplished by modifying the engine calibration (referred to as "chipping") but may also include modifications or adjustments to other components. Per the Warranty Guide that is provided to the customer and the Warranty & Policy Manual, failures resulting from modifications are not warranted by Ford Motor Company.
All powertrains are subject to warranty cancellation if a modification causes a failure. For the 3.5L EcoBoost technical service bulletin TSB 10-2-6 was published to enable your technicians to determine:
If a powertrain failure resulted from an unauthorized modification
If the engine, transmission, or entire powertrain warranty should be cancelled
Per the inspection process included in this TSB a Ford Motor Company inspector may assist with this analysis. When the inspection process clearly indicates that a failure was caused by an unauthorized modification/alteration the repair should not be completed under Warranty and, using the following process, the vehicle's remaining Engine, Transmission, or Powertrain warranty should be cancelled.
WARRANTY CANCELLATION PROCESS
To initiate a warranty cancellation on an affected vehicle, submit a warranty cancellation request form through FMCDealer.com. This on-line form can be accessed as follows:
FMCDealer.com
Select Parts & Service tab
Select Warranty Administration & Parts Return
Select Warranty Cancellation / Reinstatement Request Form
Complete and submit this form on-line.
Once the warranty is cancelled an OASIS message will advise all dealerships that the vehicle is no longer eligible for warranty coverage
Here is the TSB
Review Service Procedure
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Unauthorized calibration modifications may or may not be detectable using standard tools (Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS), Portable Diagnostic Software (PDS), NGS+ VCM). Changes can be made to the calibration and flashed to the PCM through the OBD port. Physical modifications to the hardware may or may not be present. If aftermarket power/torque-increasing modifications are suspected, care should be taken to record and store the following items: Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), Pending DTCs, Freeze Frame Data, Mode 6 and Mode 9 data. The data should be printed and attached to the repair order for later reference.
The DTCs, freeze frame data, Mode 6 and 9 data can be obtained by using the IDS, PDS or NGS+VCM under tool box selection. The Powertrain tab will provide the OBD Test Modes tab and Mode 6 and 9 data selection after the vehicle has been identified.
Attempting to increase the engine output via recalibrating the PCM may result in poor drivability, DTCs, or component failures. A partial list of calibration induced component failures is given below:
The following list contains items that are frequently modified in an effort to increase the engines torque/power output. Modifying these items may, or may not improve the performance, but can lead to drivability issues, DTCs and possibly component failures:
Figure 1 - Article 10-2-6
Review Engine Damage:
Piston Damage
Top ring delaminating and top ring land pitting caused by excessive spark advance.
I found this on FTE in a closed thread about "can tuners be detected" "And is also why ALL of the new Ford turbocharged vehicle PCM's are now encrypted by Bosch"
From yellow bullet, a racing forum:
To: All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealerships
Subject: Aftermarket Modifications – Warranty Cancellation
BACKGROUND
Aftermarket companies (referred to as "tuners") attempt to increase an engine's torque and power output beyond the design limits which may cause powertrain failures. This is often accomplished by modifying the engine calibration (referred to as "chipping") but may also include modifications or adjustments to other components. Per the Warranty Guide that is provided to the customer and the Warranty & Policy Manual, failures resulting from modifications are not warranted by Ford Motor Company.
All powertrains are subject to warranty cancellation if a modification causes a failure. For the 3.5L EcoBoost technical service bulletin TSB 10-2-6 was published to enable your technicians to determine:
If a powertrain failure resulted from an unauthorized modification
If the engine, transmission, or entire powertrain warranty should be cancelled
Per the inspection process included in this TSB a Ford Motor Company inspector may assist with this analysis. When the inspection process clearly indicates that a failure was caused by an unauthorized modification/alteration the repair should not be completed under Warranty and, using the following process, the vehicle's remaining Engine, Transmission, or Powertrain warranty should be cancelled.
WARRANTY CANCELLATION PROCESS
To initiate a warranty cancellation on an affected vehicle, submit a warranty cancellation request form through FMCDealer.com. This on-line form can be accessed as follows:
FMCDealer.com
Select Parts & Service tab
Select Warranty Administration & Parts Return
Select Warranty Cancellation / Reinstatement Request Form
Complete and submit this form on-line.
Once the warranty is cancelled an OASIS message will advise all dealerships that the vehicle is no longer eligible for warranty coverage
Here is the TSB
Review Service Procedure
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Unauthorized calibration modifications may or may not be detectable using standard tools (Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS), Portable Diagnostic Software (PDS), NGS+ VCM). Changes can be made to the calibration and flashed to the PCM through the OBD port. Physical modifications to the hardware may or may not be present. If aftermarket power/torque-increasing modifications are suspected, care should be taken to record and store the following items: Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), Pending DTCs, Freeze Frame Data, Mode 6 and Mode 9 data. The data should be printed and attached to the repair order for later reference.
The DTCs, freeze frame data, Mode 6 and 9 data can be obtained by using the IDS, PDS or NGS+VCM under tool box selection. The Powertrain tab will provide the OBD Test Modes tab and Mode 6 and 9 data selection after the vehicle has been identified.
Attempting to increase the engine output via recalibrating the PCM may result in poor drivability, DTCs, or component failures. A partial list of calibration induced component failures is given below:
- Piston damage.
- Spark over-advanced (knock-induced damage).
- Insufficient enrichment.
- Turbocharger damage.
- Catalyst damage.
- Transmission, PTU, Torque converter damage.
The following list contains items that are frequently modified in an effort to increase the engines torque/power output. Modifying these items may, or may not improve the performance, but can lead to drivability issues, DTCs and possibly component failures:
- Air induction system (air box, low pressure and high pressure air ducts).
- Wastegate actuator pre-tension.
- Throttle inlet and intake manifold pressure sensors.
- Additional fuel injection devices.
- PCV system modifications.
- Compressor bypass modifications (a.k.a. blow-off valve, or anti-surge valve).
- Exhaust air path/system.
- Thermostat modifications.
Figure 1 - Article 10-2-6
Review Engine Damage:
Piston Damage
Top ring delaminating and top ring land pitting caused by excessive spark advance.
Last edited by BassAckwards; 03-31-2011 at 09:34 PM.