Ecoboost condensate drain hole, post your results here
03-16-2014, 12:36 PM
#921
Senior Member
So, essentially, the debate is that even with a catch can system, the ingestion of water is still possible because water droplets form in the CAC, after the catch can system just prior to the air heading into the intake manifold.
The thing is that with Geno's 2 pence, even a weep hole would not fix the issue... water droplets being picked off the fins en masse and transported to the intake will not bleed out of a 1/16" hole given the speed of the air carrying the weight of the water. Some will fall out, but I can't imagine it would be enough to eradicate the issue.
BUT
it seems like the water issue has been fixed by either the catch can system, the hole and/or a combination of both.
Given we have the observations of both the catch can drain and the weep hole drain, why would folks not do both to have much, much cleaner air.
How to reconcile Geno's post remains unattainable to me. I'd think you'd need a controlled environment experiment where varying amounts of water were pushed through the system at difference air speeds and volumes to understand how much would fall and drain versus how much would reach the intake.
Ford essentially did this test in response to the NTHSA, but didn't have a weep hole, unfortunately (or as far as we know...). Clearly the air speed due to boost is capable of transporting heavy water-laden air without water significantly dropping out of suspension.
The thing is that with Geno's 2 pence, even a weep hole would not fix the issue... water droplets being picked off the fins en masse and transported to the intake will not bleed out of a 1/16" hole given the speed of the air carrying the weight of the water. Some will fall out, but I can't imagine it would be enough to eradicate the issue.
BUT
it seems like the water issue has been fixed by either the catch can system, the hole and/or a combination of both.
Given we have the observations of both the catch can drain and the weep hole drain, why would folks not do both to have much, much cleaner air.
How to reconcile Geno's post remains unattainable to me. I'd think you'd need a controlled environment experiment where varying amounts of water were pushed through the system at difference air speeds and volumes to understand how much would fall and drain versus how much would reach the intake.
Ford essentially did this test in response to the NTHSA, but didn't have a weep hole, unfortunately (or as far as we know...). Clearly the air speed due to boost is capable of transporting heavy water-laden air without water significantly dropping out of suspension.
The thought is that the drilled hole constantly provides a drain for the pooled water as it is constantly under pressure.
03-16-2014, 12:41 PM
#923
Senior Member
If anyone else wants to read more, it's here:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...018-57516P.pdf
Starts on page 11.
03-16-2014, 12:43 PM
#924
The outstanding question to me is whether this is a cure for the moisture-induced stumble and worse hydro-lock that is popping engines.
There is a lot at stake...............
03-16-2014, 12:45 PM
#925
Oh brother.... answer the question, please. C'mon Mike & itguy - you like the science and measurement, yes?
I don't want anything to do with a "fight." I also do not want loads of theory. At some point, the rubber needs to meet the road with meaningful "stuff" to call substantiating evidence. Otherwise, let's leave it at a theory and call it good until an experiment is designed, performed and objectively reported on.
I don't want anything to do with a "fight." I also do not want loads of theory. At some point, the rubber needs to meet the road with meaningful "stuff" to call substantiating evidence. Otherwise, let's leave it at a theory and call it good until an experiment is designed, performed and objectively reported on.
I have doubts the hole is a cure. if
My thoughts:
Oil from blow-by contributes by coating CAC fins. We all know oil and water don't mix so the coating helps keep the water suspended on the fins waiting for boost to blow it off. Alternatively drive long enough and it will accumulate to the point where droplets coalesce and pooling begins. At this point, the hole will help. Prior to this I think a sudden boost event would cause it to be ingested and bypass the hole. It is a matter of timing.
Even without the oily coating it would accumulate on the fins but I think vibration would keep accumulation to a minimum.
But this is all theory! Give me proper equipment and it could be tested. But I don't have access to such. I have one truck.
All I would need is a CAC plumbed sans engine but maintaining pressure in and after the CAC similar to the engine (maintain the stock pressure drop), something to intake air at 90% humidity, something to compress the air into the CAC to 2-3psi with accompanying heat, and a cooling fan to cool the CAC. I think that would do it.
Hook it up and run it an hour then open it up.
I'll take funds to buy the equipment to do a test in my PayPal account!
Last edited by packplantpath; 03-16-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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jwanck11 (03-16-2014)
03-16-2014, 12:48 PM
#926
Senior Member
Gotcha. I never read the actual report as it was after I'd gotten my new truck. Did they say the threshold in which it occurred? I was just curious and I think it'll be interesting to see if maybe guys with the hole make it through the humid season issue free and if guys without the hole but have the can do the same. If that happens it makes one wonder if the combination is the problem? I know in my truck, on one of the limp mode days after the new cac was installed... The cac was pulled to look into it and it was pretty dry. It looked like it had a dewy appearance on the sides but not enough to drip or run out.
03-16-2014, 12:49 PM
#927
Thanks for the reply.
Point is we do not know this as fact. We do not know it is pooling water versus droplets formed on the fins that act as a pool when they are released into the rushing air, under boost. We also do not know as fact that the water will not be allowed to pool because there is a ~1/16 hole in one end of the CAC. Water can and does form quickly in significant volume when the rH demands it... think of a downpour versus a mist versus a sprinkle versus when the sweat simply will not evaporate. We also have a theory that the rH is fundamentally manipulated by the changed composition of air that is entering this particular system.
None of that is proven... and I do appreciate that the biggest proponents are not trying to say there is proof.
It was a good enough theory / reasonable enough for me though to drill baby drill...... I do NOT want my engine to hydrolock.
Last edited by jwanck11; 03-16-2014 at 01:04 PM.
03-16-2014, 12:51 PM
#928
03-16-2014, 12:53 PM
#929
Senior Member
I think evidence is lacking all around. That is why I take issue with calling anything a cure. I don't think anybody has called the hole a definite cure yet. But I may have missed it. I have doubts the hole is a cure. if My thoughts: Oil from blow-by contributes by coating CAC fins. We all know oil and water don't mix so the coating helps keep the water suspended on the fins waiting for boost to blow it off. Alternatively drive long enough and it will accumulate to the point where droplets coalesce and pooling begins. At this point, the hole will help. Prior to this I think a sudden boost event would cause it to be ingested and bypass the hole. It is a matter of timing. Even without the oily coating it would accumulate on the fins but I think vibration would keep accumulation to a minimum. But this is all theory! Give me proper equipment and it could be tested. But I don't have access to such. I have one truck. All I would need is a CAC plumbed sans engine but maintaining pressure in and after the CAC similar to the engine (maintain the stock pressure drop), something to intake air at 90% humidity, something to compress the air into the CAC to 2-3psi with accompanying heat, and a cooling fan to cool the CAC. I think that would do it. Hook it up and run it an hour then open it up. I'll take finds to buy the equipment to do a test in my PayPal account!
As for your experiment, I was actually just thinking of something similar as to be able to extract the heat from my cloths dryer before sending it outside.
A large, easily cleanable rad with a fan behind it and a drain to get the water out after each load.
03-16-2014, 12:54 PM
#930
Senior Member
Thread Starter
You got me thinking, though...even the moisture contained in blowby gases has to be cooled before it can fall out in a catch can. I think the catch cam would be more effective if it had some sort of cooler to remove heat from the gases before they enter it. I should patent that...