Should I drain the torque converter?
#11
The idea is that if you drain the torque converter without a total flush machine when the old fluid comes out something on the transmission will fall out of place because the fluid was holding it in. How does that not make sense to you? I've been told this by #1. My father, a regional manager of 4 different tire/service shops #2. My uncle, who has been working at a local Ford Dealership as a mechanic for 4 years. He's asking about draining the torque converter himself, not by using a total flush machine that puts new fluid in while its draining out the old fluid. I'm just trying to make him aware of the risks. If a vehicle has 185K miles on it and never had a transmission fluid change draining the torque converter the traditional way could introduce issues. My father assures its not a myth. He's had vehicles have to be pushed out of the shop after doing a full flush. Just because it's called "Perfection Tire" doesn't mean they only do tires. They do things from lube service to engine and transmission rebuilds/swaps. http://www.perfectiontire.com/mechanical-services
ALSO IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING AND LEAVE YOUR OLD TRANSMISSION FLUID IN YOUR TRANSMISSION WILL LIKELY FAIL AS WELL. HENCE WHY I SUGGEST MULTIPLE PAN DROP/REFILLS OVER ~30K MILES At least w/ a Pan drop you exchange 1/3 of the old fluid out without risking anything.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940214
http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/sho...#axzz23kWaZ8po
http://www.silveradosierra.com/trans...es-t14570.html
http://pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/for...p?f=19&t=18562
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9205624AAxXiSM
http://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c5...nsmission.html
I personally wouldn't risk it. Would you rather risk introducing transmission problems at 185K or see your transmission go past 200K miles.. But everyone has the right to do whatever they like to their vehicle. I am going to go w/ pan drop/filter change every ~7K miles to be safe considering it only costs $40 for 5 quarts of Mecron and a filter and less than an hour of my time vs thousands of dollars to get a new transmission installed.
^My gasket was re-usable on my pan. The gasket that came w/ the new filter was very thin and flimsy, so I cleaned off the old gasket and re-used it.
---------------------------------------My Pan Drop---------------------------------------------
Just FYI my transmission shifted extremely smooth and without a single issue before the pan drop and continues to shift smooth without issue after the pan drop.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...69786687_n.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...35441514_n.jpg
ALSO IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING AND LEAVE YOUR OLD TRANSMISSION FLUID IN YOUR TRANSMISSION WILL LIKELY FAIL AS WELL. HENCE WHY I SUGGEST MULTIPLE PAN DROP/REFILLS OVER ~30K MILES At least w/ a Pan drop you exchange 1/3 of the old fluid out without risking anything.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=940214
http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/sho...#axzz23kWaZ8po
http://www.silveradosierra.com/trans...es-t14570.html
http://pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/for...p?f=19&t=18562
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9205624AAxXiSM
http://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c5...nsmission.html
I personally wouldn't risk it. Would you rather risk introducing transmission problems at 185K or see your transmission go past 200K miles.. But everyone has the right to do whatever they like to their vehicle. I am going to go w/ pan drop/filter change every ~7K miles to be safe considering it only costs $40 for 5 quarts of Mecron and a filter and less than an hour of my time vs thousands of dollars to get a new transmission installed.
^My gasket was re-usable on my pan. The gasket that came w/ the new filter was very thin and flimsy, so I cleaned off the old gasket and re-used it.
---------------------------------------My Pan Drop---------------------------------------------
Just FYI my transmission shifted extremely smooth and without a single issue before the pan drop and continues to shift smooth without issue after the pan drop.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...69786687_n.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...35441514_n.jpg
I would want proof rather than urban legend. Or a mechanical explanation of what, exactly, gets "held in" by the fluid.
#12
Parts of the torque converter can break away but be held in by the OLD fluids in the torque converter. Especially if the fluid is old and gunked up. If you drain those fluids the parts that broke could fall out of place because the fluid is no longer in the torque converter.
Read up. Ford suggests that you don't drain your torque converter if the fluid has excessive amounts of miles on it. So does BMW.
Anyways, I've said the same thing over and over. He can do what he wants to do, regardless of what happens it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to voice my concern. Why risk it when you have 185K miles on the truck? Would you rather have it run longer or introduce problems?
Reputable Lube/Repair shops have these policies for a reason. Take your Ford to a dealership or reputable shop and ask them about doing a full drain on a truck with 185K miles on it then go from there. Then you KNOW you'll be getting correct information.
Last edited by m3t4lm4n222; 08-16-2012 at 09:12 PM.
#13
Again
I do not know about "other" makes but I can tell you from personal experience (me, not my dad or uncle or friend or whatever) that if the fluid is contaminated and you do not drain it all you just contaminate the new fluid. The only issue I have ever heard of regarding torque converters is that you should not power flush a locking unit as it can damage the clutch material. After having serviced probably 150 Ford cars and truck in my life (not all had plugs) I can say that I never had anything "fall out" of a torque converter.
But don't pay attention to me. ASE certifications and Ford STST training mean little to some people.
But don't pay attention to me. ASE certifications and Ford STST training mean little to some people.
#14
I do not know about "other" makes but I can tell you from personal experience (me, not my dad or uncle or friend or whatever) that if the fluid is contaminated and you do not drain it all you just contaminate the new fluid. The only issue I have ever heard of regarding torque converters is that you should not power flush a locking unit as it can damage the clutch material. After having serviced probably 150 Ford cars and truck in my life (not all had plugs) I can say that I never had anything "fall out" of a torque converter.
But don't pay attention to me. ASE certifications and Ford STST training mean little to some people.
But don't pay attention to me. ASE certifications and Ford STST training mean little to some people.
Yes, when you mix newer fluid with older fluid it mixes, but it's better than 100% older fluid. If you where to drop the pan more often cleaner/newer fluid and a new filter would be going in every time.
I'm not the only person whom believes that you shouldn't do full flushes with higher mile vehicles. I'm not trying to say that what everyone else is saying is wrong. I'm just trying to voice my opinion. If that offends you, well sorry.
Last edited by m3t4lm4n222; 08-16-2012 at 09:49 PM.
#15
I like the following point that was made in one of the links m3t4lm3n posted...
if you do a flush, and your tranny gets jacked up, that means it was just jacked up to begin with personally, i'd feel better about having a new/rebuilt tranny rather than one held together by sludgy fluid...
its along the same lines as saying "dont switch to synthetic if you have high miles, because it will make your engine leak"
fix the REAL problem and dont blame the fluid..
its along the same lines as saying "dont switch to synthetic if you have high miles, because it will make your engine leak"
fix the REAL problem and dont blame the fluid..
#16
#17
How does it "Not make sense".
Parts of the torque converter can break away but be held in by the OLD fluids in the torque converter. Especially if the fluid is old and gunked up. If you drain those fluids the parts that broke could fall out of place because the fluid is no longer in the torque converter.
Read up. Ford suggests that you don't drain your torque converter if the fluid has excessive amounts of miles on it. So does BMW.
Anyways, I've said the same thing over and over. He can do what he wants to do, regardless of what happens it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to voice my concern. Why risk it when you have 185K miles on the truck? Would you rather have it run longer or introduce problems?
Reputable Lube/Repair shops have these policies for a reason. Take your Ford to a dealership or reputable shop and ask them about doing a full drain on a truck with 185K miles on it then go from there. Then you KNOW you'll be getting correct information.
Parts of the torque converter can break away but be held in by the OLD fluids in the torque converter. Especially if the fluid is old and gunked up. If you drain those fluids the parts that broke could fall out of place because the fluid is no longer in the torque converter.
Read up. Ford suggests that you don't drain your torque converter if the fluid has excessive amounts of miles on it. So does BMW.
Anyways, I've said the same thing over and over. He can do what he wants to do, regardless of what happens it doesn't affect me. I'm just trying to voice my concern. Why risk it when you have 185K miles on the truck? Would you rather have it run longer or introduce problems?
Reputable Lube/Repair shops have these policies for a reason. Take your Ford to a dealership or reputable shop and ask them about doing a full drain on a truck with 185K miles on it then go from there. Then you KNOW you'll be getting correct information.
First, I doubt it has anything to do with things coming loose in the TC. I have changed high-mileage fluid before; my 2003 F-150 (which I bought used and was somewhat neglected) was experiencing TC shudder, which has a TSB for high-mileage fluid (Ford TSB 98-3-6). Ford policy in that case is to change the fluid. That seems to be in stark contrast to your assertion that Ford says not to change the fluid. And, I had no problems after the switch.
Now, I think there is some truth to the fact that changing the fluid in a transmission that has high mileage can remove the friction material that is allowing the clutches to limp along. But, that has nothing to do with the TC. And, that transmission is on its deathbed anyway. Perhaps changing the fluid hastened its demise a bit, but that transmission was not long for this world anyway.
As to your comment that reputable shops have a policy, this is because they don't want the liability for being blamed for killing a transmission that was neglected in the first place and is on its last leg. This is the same thing with spark plugs. Bring your 97-03 Ford with original plugs to the shop for changing, and they will tell you straight up that you pay for any cylinder repairs if a plug comes out with part of the head attached. This is because they know this is a problem, and they're not willing to pay for maintenance neglect.
And, of course, you are entitled to your opinion.
#18
Senior Member
Now, I think there is some truth to the fact that changing the fluid in a transmission that has high mileage can remove the friction material that is allowing the clutches to limp along. But, that has nothing to do with the TC. And, that transmission is on its deathbed anyway. Perhaps changing the fluid hastened its demise a bit, but that transmission was not long for this world anyway.
Don't be Naive to think that the reason new models don't have a Torque Converter drain plug is because it's causing problem.
Last edited by w0lvez; 09-14-2013 at 10:02 PM.
#19
Ok I've read the childish banter back and forth and I'm steal this for u
First of all, I'm not telling him to disregard anyone's opinion. Maybe you're seeing it that way, but that's not what's going on. I'm just telling him my opinion and what I have heard from professionals that I am directly related too. I'm not trying to talk down on you or your personal experiance, but don't dealerships typically deal with vehicles under warranty? Vehicles with lower miles? Not typically with vehicles that have 185,000 miles and counting. Sure, some people may bring their higher mileage vehicles to dealerships, but i'm sure it's less common.
Yes, when you mix newer fluid with older fluid it mixes, but it's better than 100% older fluid. If you where to drop the pan more often cleaner/newer fluid and a new filter would be going in every time.
I'm not the only person whom believes that you shouldn't do full flushes with higher mile vehicles. I'm not trying to say that what everyone else is saying is wrong. I'm just trying to voice my opinion. If that offends you, well sorry.
Yes, when you mix newer fluid with older fluid it mixes, but it's better than 100% older fluid. If you where to drop the pan more often cleaner/newer fluid and a new filter would be going in every time.
I'm not the only person whom believes that you shouldn't do full flushes with higher mile vehicles. I'm not trying to say that what everyone else is saying is wrong. I'm just trying to voice my opinion. If that offends you, well sorry.
#20
The original thread is from 8 years ago and the last reply was a year later in 2013. I'm sure these guys are thrilled that someone finally came along seven years later to finally put this matter to rest. Can you imagine all their sleepless nights until now? They must be so relieved. Kudos for finally resolving this conflict. Well done sir!
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