O2 delete
99 F150 Blue x-cab 4x4
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Glen Burnie, MD
Good evening gentleman,
To gimmel1 and Robsdad0312,
The front cats do pretty much all the emissions work so you can do two different things.
1) eliminating the rears (That is if your fronts are healthy enough.)
2) replace all 4 cats with 2 high flows and remount the rear O2s behind the new cats
Both of these can be done with simply reinstalling the rear O2 or doing the Gotts O2 to ensure no CEL. Take these with a grain of salt because exhaust leaks and other problems can also turn on the CEL. Even reinstalling the rears can throw a code on some trucks. The rear O2s simply monitor cat function and do nothing as far as performance and air/fuel mix so there is really no harm to the trouble code if it is your back O2s. If you want to totally eliminate the second O2s a tuning device will be your best bet to turn them off. I don't have experience with simulators at all so I'll refrain from them.
Fordtrucktexan
Results may vary. If you feel it helped your truck, more power to you (pun intended
). Every vehicle is different and other mods affect things too. It does slightly help with freer exhaust flow so it does have some effect.
otto457
To gimmel1 and Robsdad0312,
The front cats do pretty much all the emissions work so you can do two different things.
1) eliminating the rears (That is if your fronts are healthy enough.)
2) replace all 4 cats with 2 high flows and remount the rear O2s behind the new cats
Both of these can be done with simply reinstalling the rear O2 or doing the Gotts O2 to ensure no CEL. Take these with a grain of salt because exhaust leaks and other problems can also turn on the CEL. Even reinstalling the rears can throw a code on some trucks. The rear O2s simply monitor cat function and do nothing as far as performance and air/fuel mix so there is really no harm to the trouble code if it is your back O2s. If you want to totally eliminate the second O2s a tuning device will be your best bet to turn them off. I don't have experience with simulators at all so I'll refrain from them.
Fordtrucktexan
Results may vary. If you feel it helped your truck, more power to you (pun intended
). Every vehicle is different and other mods affect things too. It does slightly help with freer exhaust flow so it does have some effect. otto457
Thank you for all your info. A few questions for ya. How much do tuning devises cost? Were can I get one? And do you recommended me cutting the back two out wait n see if the cel comes on or get the tuning devise anyway. What exactly does this devise do what are all the functions of it. Links would be nice too. Thanks again you guys are great.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,683
Likes: 171
Good day,
Well to start it really depends on what you want to do with the truck. Tuners do far more than simply turning off the rear 02s but that is one of the many advantages of a tuner. If you want to do the exhaust and call it good, by all means cut the rears and re-install. If you still get the CEL for the cat codes, do the Gotts O2 mod.
I do all the following assuming you have a V8 for the tuners. If a V6, your choices are more limited.
BUT....if you want to get the most out of your truck and your mods a custom tuner is the way to go. "Canned" tunes don't have the capacity to turn off the O2s. A tuner takes the program in your truck's stock PCM file and tunes it to your liking (by adjusting shift firmness, etc) and makes gains in efficiency and horsepower. If you want more explanation of canned v. custom or just what custom tuning and the gains of a programmer in general, I can go into that but it gets lengthy. Usually 20-30hp is a good gain for a programmer on these trucks.
The tuners themselves range anywhere from $350-$600 with most being around +$30 per custom tune. The internet is probably the best place to purchase your tuner. However some local dealers for widely based products such as SCT can be found. All these tuners essentially do the same thing so you won't go wrong with the one you choose. It's whatever looks good to you.
*Here is where I give my warning to cover myself. The products I'm going to list are not the only ones out there. These are just a few of the most used and recommended devices in our truck community.
-Gryphon programmers http://www.phptune.com/
They offer the what is essentially the Edge Evolution and Edge CT&CTS http://www.edgeproducts.com/products...tegory_key=all re badged and available to be custom tuned. The work is done by Bill Cohron who has worked with Edge and Ford and has many years experience. Power Hungry Performance is the only company to offer this custom tuning of these devices and has the exclusive rights.
+Upsides to this tuner are: Displays many parameters to monitor and stays on the dash, tuning is done by a premier programmer, with the CTS has touch screen and backup camera.
-Downside: custom tuning takes a couple months because Bill is in such great demand but is worth the wait.
-SCT Xcal 3
There are many places that carry this widely used tuner and many people that can tune them. http://www.sctflash.com/X3.php
Upsides: Widely used in several applications, many tuners some can get custom tunes in a couple weeks, flashes truck and not connected afterwards, data logging.
Dowside: Doesn't monitor parameters,
Two the top programmers for this device are:
VMP tuning: A reputable tuner with a track record for fast turnaround times for tunes. Justin at VMP does the tuning, he was mainly a Mustang guy but has found his way into the truck world and now is one of the top for SCT tuning. http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.php?
Troyer Performance: Long history of providing performance parts for trucks. Mike Troyer has a lot of experience in the field. http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi-bin/ppistore.pl
SCT Livewire http://www.sctflash.com/LW.php
Shows parameters much like the Edge products with some variation. Allows the user to program many more components through data logging. However, it is still best to get a custom tune from a place like Troyer for this.
+Upside: user can control more, display screen
-Downside: user can control more (can be good or bad depending on the person), most expensive of the devices.
There are also others such as Sniper and Diablo Sport with their Trinity model that also are similar to the above but are not as widely used.
Whatever you choose, you be happy with it. With any of these programmers there is a risk of messing something up but done correctly the risk is low. A reputable tuner will make good gain, 20-30hp, while staying in safe parameters of the truck and doing things such as turning off the O2s.
Sorry for the long post and happy hunting!
otto457
Well to start it really depends on what you want to do with the truck. Tuners do far more than simply turning off the rear 02s but that is one of the many advantages of a tuner. If you want to do the exhaust and call it good, by all means cut the rears and re-install. If you still get the CEL for the cat codes, do the Gotts O2 mod.
I do all the following assuming you have a V8 for the tuners. If a V6, your choices are more limited.
BUT....if you want to get the most out of your truck and your mods a custom tuner is the way to go. "Canned" tunes don't have the capacity to turn off the O2s. A tuner takes the program in your truck's stock PCM file and tunes it to your liking (by adjusting shift firmness, etc) and makes gains in efficiency and horsepower. If you want more explanation of canned v. custom or just what custom tuning and the gains of a programmer in general, I can go into that but it gets lengthy. Usually 20-30hp is a good gain for a programmer on these trucks.
The tuners themselves range anywhere from $350-$600 with most being around +$30 per custom tune. The internet is probably the best place to purchase your tuner. However some local dealers for widely based products such as SCT can be found. All these tuners essentially do the same thing so you won't go wrong with the one you choose. It's whatever looks good to you.
*Here is where I give my warning to cover myself. The products I'm going to list are not the only ones out there. These are just a few of the most used and recommended devices in our truck community.
-Gryphon programmers http://www.phptune.com/
They offer the what is essentially the Edge Evolution and Edge CT&CTS http://www.edgeproducts.com/products...tegory_key=all re badged and available to be custom tuned. The work is done by Bill Cohron who has worked with Edge and Ford and has many years experience. Power Hungry Performance is the only company to offer this custom tuning of these devices and has the exclusive rights.
+Upsides to this tuner are: Displays many parameters to monitor and stays on the dash, tuning is done by a premier programmer, with the CTS has touch screen and backup camera.
-Downside: custom tuning takes a couple months because Bill is in such great demand but is worth the wait.
-SCT Xcal 3
There are many places that carry this widely used tuner and many people that can tune them. http://www.sctflash.com/X3.php
Upsides: Widely used in several applications, many tuners some can get custom tunes in a couple weeks, flashes truck and not connected afterwards, data logging.
Dowside: Doesn't monitor parameters,
Two the top programmers for this device are:
VMP tuning: A reputable tuner with a track record for fast turnaround times for tunes. Justin at VMP does the tuning, he was mainly a Mustang guy but has found his way into the truck world and now is one of the top for SCT tuning. http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.php?
Troyer Performance: Long history of providing performance parts for trucks. Mike Troyer has a lot of experience in the field. http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi-bin/ppistore.pl
SCT Livewire http://www.sctflash.com/LW.php
Shows parameters much like the Edge products with some variation. Allows the user to program many more components through data logging. However, it is still best to get a custom tune from a place like Troyer for this.
+Upside: user can control more, display screen
-Downside: user can control more (can be good or bad depending on the person), most expensive of the devices.
There are also others such as Sniper and Diablo Sport with their Trinity model that also are similar to the above but are not as widely used.
Whatever you choose, you be happy with it. With any of these programmers there is a risk of messing something up but done correctly the risk is low. A reputable tuner will make good gain, 20-30hp, while staying in safe parameters of the truck and doing things such as turning off the O2s.
Sorry for the long post and happy hunting!
otto457
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: KS
Maybe there is one already..?? But if not someone that has done it should start a How-To thread on removing the rear cats and moving the O2 sensors. I would like to know how others do it, cuz it looks complicated under there.