Turbo?
05-15-2009, 12:55 PM
#31
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okay, i'm not a boost expert, but that sounds wrong. now 12 lbs boost is 12 lbs. regardless. and will net the same power. now i'm not saying a turbo and supercharger are the same, just your theory is off a little. correct me if i'm wrong. the way i understand it is a supercharger set at 12 lbs of boost will reach 12 lbs at the top of the rpm band or close to it. now with a sc, you'll have constant boost, so you might get a little bit more power at lower rpms. but with a turbo, once spooled up, typically around the 3000-3500 rpm range will be at full 12 psi throughout the rest of the rpm band, giving it the advantage. also, with a turbo you remain in a vacuum/ naturally aspirated state while at low rpm. so basically, your truck would run as it would normally. once you get on the gas, the exhaust creates pressure that spools the turbos up and starts creating boost and only then are you really running forced induction. definite advantage. less wear and tear for normal every day driving. i also like that it hits full boost earlier in the rpm range, creating more power throughout as opposed to hitting peak boost at peak rpm, only to shift and drop back down in pressure with a sc. thats why sc's seem slower but yet dyno good numbers.
someone said something about heat causing problems... depends on where you mount the turbos. if you do a rear mount, heat build up isnt that big of a problem. closer to the motor and it will run a little warmer. but i dont see it being so much of a problem, as most quality companies provide heat shields for the turbos to help reflect the heat from nearby components.
someone said something about heat causing problems... depends on where you mount the turbos. if you do a rear mount, heat build up isnt that big of a problem. closer to the motor and it will run a little warmer. but i dont see it being so much of a problem, as most quality companies provide heat shields for the turbos to help reflect the heat from nearby components.
as far as towing is concerned, if you get the right sized turbo you can get boost as low as 2500, maybe lower. if/when i get the money to turbo my truck ill run a small 62mm so that boost comes in early but will still make enough boost for 400rwhp.
the turbo desiel guys run small turbos. the turbo on my buddy's 6L f250 is the same size of just one of the turbos on my 5.4L mustang. just depends on the application.
05-15-2009, 01:03 PM
#32
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how many turbo advocates actually HAVE said hair dryer on their F150? Comparing an STi or EVO to an F150 is foolish at best. Direct bolt in, tuning, and ease of maintenance is a good thing, why hasnt anyone bothered to recommend FRPP's Whipple? Its made FOR the truck, tuning is easy as a tuner like Justin Starkey or Don Lasota could nail a mail order tune as close to stoichiometric as possible.
05-15-2009, 01:53 PM
#33
yes boost is boost, but you are forgetting how its made. with a turbo, you dont loose any hp at all to produce boost. with a sc, your motor has to spin the sc and compress the air (which is a lot of work) there for when all is said and done, you get less hp per pound of boost because about 10hp/psi is being used to make that boost and not to drive the tires. while with a turbo it takes 0hp/psi to make boost
as far as towing is concerned, if you get the right sized turbo you can get boost as low as 2500, maybe lower. if/when i get the money to turbo my truck ill run a small 62mm so that boost comes in early but will still make enough boost for 400rwhp.
the turbo desiel guys run small turbos. the turbo on my buddy's 6L f250 is the same size of just one of the turbos on my 5.4L mustang. just depends on the application.
as far as towing is concerned, if you get the right sized turbo you can get boost as low as 2500, maybe lower. if/when i get the money to turbo my truck ill run a small 62mm so that boost comes in early but will still make enough boost for 400rwhp.
the turbo desiel guys run small turbos. the turbo on my buddy's 6L f250 is the same size of just one of the turbos on my 5.4L mustang. just depends on the application.
its definitely good to note that you can get the right turbo setup for your truck so that you can produce boost earlier in the power range. thats definitely something people should keep in mind when looking to boost their vehicles.
as far as the deisel thing goes, i was just making a point that a poster had made about whats good for a deisel must be good for a gasoline engine, but thats not always the case because they work on slightly different principals.
heh, as i mentioned, i'm not a boost expert. so i'm definitely open for clarification and for learning more. I would definitely want as much info as possible if i was looking into this route of performance before i made a choice. in the end, it definitely comes down to what the end user is looking for and what he expects out of it. For towing and power, a turbo might be the best way to go, but a sc isnt a bad choice either (for those sc users out there!). He just has to know the pros and cons of each.
Last edited by deviant1; 05-15-2009 at 01:57 PM.
05-15-2009, 04:57 PM
#34
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wow a turbo has lag but no power lose a super charger you can put a bigger pully on it and get a bigger inter cooler kit that will cool it down but im all for turbo's your call but dont leave out superchargers it'll fit a little better and might be easier and if done right could give you more power but no matter what higher rpm= more boost with either one and they both give you better mpg and another idea is a pro charger i jsut heard about them and im not sure how well they work but its similar to a super charger just alot smaller
05-16-2009, 03:42 AM
#35
Senior Member
one thing i dont think that has come up is engine size. i assume all that are saying sc have a 5.4 motor. for people like me with the 4.6, i think turbo is the only route because i have yet to see a sc kit that is bolt in for the 4.6L. of course you could always get a vortech or procharger from a mustang and fabricate a mounting bracket or even modify the mustang 4.6l bracket but i dont think there is a bolt in kit
05-16-2009, 10:32 PM
#36
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Do you guys think this hydrogen gadget will work on my truck?
I found one on http://www.hydrogen-fuel-now.com/
& a different one on http://www.hhopro.com/
I found one on http://www.hydrogen-fuel-now.com/
& a different one on http://www.hhopro.com/
05-17-2009, 01:26 AM
#37
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I just wanted to clear this statement up as it is a common misconception. A big turbo producing 12 psi of boost will NOT dyno the same numbers as a smaller turbo. Likewise, a roots type supercharger running 12 psi of boost will very likely net different HP than a centrifugal supercharger. In other words, the pressure inside the air intake does not directly relate to the power the motor will output.
A small turbo on a big V8 motor running 14 psi of boost would be very inefficient and would not spin as efficiently as a larger turbo. This is why someone saying that they are running "12 lbs of boost" on their turbo without providing details of the size of the turbo means very little. I would be happy to go in detail about this if someone would like further clarification.
As far as the original question is concerned, I would HIGHLY encourage everyone to read "Maximum Boost" and "Supercharged!" - two books by Corky Bell detailing how both systems work.
The biggest disadvantage of a turbo is the lag associated with running larger turbos. However, turbochargers tend to produce power more efficiently. Superchargers are generally regarded as being far more reliable than turbochargers (lubrication/heat being the number one killer of turbos which spin at insane RPMs by design). If you are installing the system yourself, a turbo charger will be a pain in the *** (guaranteed).
Great cases can be made for either system. If you are going with a turbo, I would abstain from one of the pre-sold kits. Read up on things and design your own system. Personally, I would prefer to have a turbocharger set up on my truck if I wanted to go Forced Induction, if for no other reason then for the "Pssht!" sound that some blow off valves can make when releasing pressure and the sound associated with turbo spool-up. Kind of silly eh?
Last edited by 05_F150_4x4; 05-17-2009 at 01:32 AM.
05-17-2009, 10:37 AM
#38
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Hey guys, long time lurker here.
I just wanted to clear this statement up as it is a common misconception. A big turbo producing 12 psi of boost will NOT dyno the same numbers as a smaller turbo. Likewise, a roots type supercharger running 12 psi of boost will very likely net different HP than a centrifugal supercharger. In other words, the pressure inside the air intake does not directly relate to the power the motor will output.
A small turbo on a big V8 motor running 14 psi of boost would be very inefficient and would not spin as efficiently as a larger turbo. This is why someone saying that they are running "12 lbs of boost" on their turbo without providing details of the size of the turbo means very little. I would be happy to go in detail about this if someone would like further clarification.
As far as the original question is concerned, I would HIGHLY encourage everyone to read "Maximum Boost" and "Supercharged!" - two books by Corky Bell detailing how both systems work.
The biggest disadvantage of a turbo is the lag associated with running larger turbos. However, turbochargers tend to produce power more efficiently. Superchargers are generally regarded as being far more reliable than turbochargers (lubrication/heat being the number one killer of turbos which spin at insane RPMs by design). If you are installing the system yourself, a turbo charger will be a pain in the *** (guaranteed).
Great cases can be made for either system. If you are going with a turbo, I would abstain from one of the pre-sold kits. Read up on things and design your own system. Personally, I would prefer to have a turbocharger set up on my truck if I wanted to go Forced Induction, if for no other reason then for the "Pssht!" sound that some blow off valves can make when releasing pressure and the sound associated with turbo spool-up. Kind of silly eh?
I just wanted to clear this statement up as it is a common misconception. A big turbo producing 12 psi of boost will NOT dyno the same numbers as a smaller turbo. Likewise, a roots type supercharger running 12 psi of boost will very likely net different HP than a centrifugal supercharger. In other words, the pressure inside the air intake does not directly relate to the power the motor will output.
A small turbo on a big V8 motor running 14 psi of boost would be very inefficient and would not spin as efficiently as a larger turbo. This is why someone saying that they are running "12 lbs of boost" on their turbo without providing details of the size of the turbo means very little. I would be happy to go in detail about this if someone would like further clarification.
As far as the original question is concerned, I would HIGHLY encourage everyone to read "Maximum Boost" and "Supercharged!" - two books by Corky Bell detailing how both systems work.
The biggest disadvantage of a turbo is the lag associated with running larger turbos. However, turbochargers tend to produce power more efficiently. Superchargers are generally regarded as being far more reliable than turbochargers (lubrication/heat being the number one killer of turbos which spin at insane RPMs by design). If you are installing the system yourself, a turbo charger will be a pain in the *** (guaranteed).
Great cases can be made for either system. If you are going with a turbo, I would abstain from one of the pre-sold kits. Read up on things and design your own system. Personally, I would prefer to have a turbocharger set up on my truck if I wanted to go Forced Induction, if for no other reason then for the "Pssht!" sound that some blow off valves can make when releasing pressure and the sound associated with turbo spool-up. Kind of silly eh?
05-17-2009, 02:04 PM
#39
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Yea, putting a Turbo on a truck is stupid. I mean all the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are all SuperCharged so why not supercharge. Wait a second, they all use TURBO's!!!! Maybe a TURBO on a truck aint that bad of an idea afterall huh? I mean, if its good for the big trucks, why cant it be good for the midsize trucks as well? Tell you what, put your supercharger in, and contact me and we can line up and prove to everyone which is better, Supercharger or Turbo on an F150.
Wonder why Rousch and Saleen use SC on their cars and Trucks?
And again, unless you want to race your truck I'd stick with the SC.
I don't race my truck I use it for what it was meant to do. Haul and pull. I'll gladly hand your *** to you with my Stang though.
05-17-2009, 10:26 PM
#40
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Oh wait I can be a smart *** too! I don't recall any GAS powered 3/4 or 1 ton turbos. Maybe you can jog my memory on that one.
Wonder why Rousch and Saleen use SC on their cars and Trucks?
And again, unless you want to race your truck I'd stick with the SC.
I don't race my truck I use it for what it was meant to do. Haul and pull. I'll gladly hand your *** to you with my Stang though.
Wonder why Rousch and Saleen use SC on their cars and Trucks?
And again, unless you want to race your truck I'd stick with the SC.
I don't race my truck I use it for what it was meant to do. Haul and pull. I'll gladly hand your *** to you with my Stang though.