Remote start options?
12-02-2013, 06:48 PM
#11
Senior Member
i only ever had the 1 key and they were able to install the remote system np. still have my key on my keychain too. you dont *have* to have 2 keys to make a clone device work.
12-02-2013, 07:17 PM
#12
Senior Member
Did they pull the chip out of your key? This is news to me. The only thing holding me back from installing a remote start is the fact that I need two keys...
12-03-2013, 12:06 AM
#13
Senior Member
nope, they just plugged the clone device somewhere under the hood i think. maybe the ODB II port for a quick check? wasnt too sure, but im 100% positive they didnt tear apart my only key.
12-03-2013, 01:02 AM
#14
Senior Member
I didn't think you could get the clone for the F150 but I don't see why it can't be possible. Kamison, you already had a factory alarm, are you sure they didn't use the existing bypass module with the new alarm? There would have been an existing one for the factory remote start. That's what I ended up doing. I figured why buy/program another bypass module when I already had one in there (and coded to the truck).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
Last edited by homer; 12-03-2013 at 01:08 AM.
12-03-2013, 08:24 AM
#15
Senior Member
viper.....
Does anyone have the viper smart start?
12-03-2013, 09:47 AM
#16
Senior Member
I didn't think you could get the clone for the F150 but I don't see why it can't be possible. Kamison, you already had a factory alarm, are you sure they didn't use the existing bypass module with the new alarm? There would have been an existing one for the factory remote start. That's what I ended up doing. I figured why buy/program another bypass module when I already had one in there (and coded to the truck).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
If you have a Bypass module that completely goes around the security system then your at serious risk of getting your truck stolen.
I live in Spokane Wa. You can call any mobile locksmith and they should have your blank (ready to cut) transponder key (best deal I found was the $65 I paid to Al's Mobile Locksmith). They'll cut/match it to your ONE existing key and then program it to your original key and ignition and they did it in my driveway and only took about 20 minutes total. It will start your truck just like the original factory Ford key.
Last edited by PNW EFFONEFIFTY; 12-03-2013 at 09:51 AM.
12-03-2013, 12:05 PM
#17
Senior Member
PNW EFFONEFIFTY, I don't think I wrote my earlier msg correctly haha. I know extremely well how the bypass works on this truck and I definitely have installed enough alarms + remote starts to understand that aspect. Your first sentence, what I had actually meant was using the blank key for programming a third key (in conjunction with an existing bypass module to act as a second key), not to run the truck. Although, you will be shocked at something with the bypass module while the truck is running. I'll explain:
Bypass module: Believe it or not, at least on my truck (2005 F-150), the bypass ONLY disables starting the truck (then flashes the securelok light)! Once the ignition is powered, it looks for the chipped key, I crank, then that's it. Once I have the truck running, I can pull power to the bypass (with no chipped keys in range) and the truck will still run. I was surprised to learn this (and please believe me, I tried it!). I didn't test this with my Fusion but I know my F150 operates this way. I ran it for about 15 minutes, maybe it polls hourly, I don't know... but it did run for that long with no issues. I might even have a video of it sitting somewhere.
What I was saying to Kamison is if he had a previous remote start installed before, when they put the new remote start in they likely used the old bypass unit he already had (also saving him $30-60+). If he got his remote start for $100, I'd say they probably didn't put a new bypass in and used the existing one he already had. I've looked and I can't find a "cloner" for the 2004-2008 F150, only a transponder that transmits a new unique key-code. So my guess with his is they likely used the existing. You can get cloneable ones, but I can't find them for our truck.
Missing key - programming a third key if you have a remote starter that works: If you do have a bypass unit installed though and you only have 1 key, the bypass unit is considered another key (it has a different transponder code). If you know how to do it (as I mentioned earlier), you can use your chipped key, a blank key (with your bypass module - as this is a key technically), to program a third key. Again, because the bypass is a key (I use the blank key so the computer doesn't mistakenly read the first key again). I did this on two of my vehicles because both had remote starters, but both only had one key when I bought them. It's not easy, you need to have a temporary switch or temporarily power your bypass module at the right time to do this trick... It saved me a lot of money on both vehicles though
.
The reason I used the blank key for the "second key" is so that when I powered the bypass module, the truck doesn't mistakenly read a transponder code from a key but rather the bypass module. If you power the bypass module and you use the first key in the ignition, depending which one is stronger (should be the bypass) the ford computer will read the wrong code. In that case, you won't be able to program the third key. The second key is blank, but the bypass isn't (working together). Does that make sense?
I threw this in because it may save someone money if they know how to do it and are up for it.
I've heard about some locksmiths being able to do the chip programming as PNW EFFONEFIFTY mentioned around my area too (Edmonton). There should be some in the Vancouver area I'd imagine too.
Security of Bypass: You mention if you have a bypass module that completely goes around, that's actually really not uncommon. TODAY you can get much better ones (such as the iDatalink Blade) that connect straight into a Compustar, or others that use RS232 (data - ADS/Fortin, etc). The older ones use a simple 12 volt + ground unfortunately... so any car thief can simply jump into the truck, power it, hotwire the ignition, and off they go! Unfortunately that was the option at the time (back in 2005), now they're better. I've installed both but obviously I push people for the more secure ones.
The blade is nice because it slides right into a Compustar unit and actually runs through the compustar unit for it's bypass functions (connector isn't even on the blade chip).
Security of Remote Start: Many remote start units have a "trigger wire input". Some have by default the trigger wire to "Start when grounded", and the wire exists on the main remote start unit. You literally grab the wire, ground it to chasis, whatever... I know this is off on Compustar by default and I'd imagine it is with most. Good to be aware of though, I change mine to instant trigger.
At the end of the day, there's only really so much one can do anyways.
Bypass module: Believe it or not, at least on my truck (2005 F-150), the bypass ONLY disables starting the truck (then flashes the securelok light)! Once the ignition is powered, it looks for the chipped key, I crank, then that's it. Once I have the truck running, I can pull power to the bypass (with no chipped keys in range) and the truck will still run. I was surprised to learn this (and please believe me, I tried it!). I didn't test this with my Fusion but I know my F150 operates this way. I ran it for about 15 minutes, maybe it polls hourly, I don't know... but it did run for that long with no issues. I might even have a video of it sitting somewhere.
What I was saying to Kamison is if he had a previous remote start installed before, when they put the new remote start in they likely used the old bypass unit he already had (also saving him $30-60+). If he got his remote start for $100, I'd say they probably didn't put a new bypass in and used the existing one he already had. I've looked and I can't find a "cloner" for the 2004-2008 F150, only a transponder that transmits a new unique key-code. So my guess with his is they likely used the existing. You can get cloneable ones, but I can't find them for our truck.
Missing key - programming a third key if you have a remote starter that works: If you do have a bypass unit installed though and you only have 1 key, the bypass unit is considered another key (it has a different transponder code). If you know how to do it (as I mentioned earlier), you can use your chipped key, a blank key (with your bypass module - as this is a key technically), to program a third key. Again, because the bypass is a key (I use the blank key so the computer doesn't mistakenly read the first key again). I did this on two of my vehicles because both had remote starters, but both only had one key when I bought them. It's not easy, you need to have a temporary switch or temporarily power your bypass module at the right time to do this trick... It saved me a lot of money on both vehicles though
. The reason I used the blank key for the "second key" is so that when I powered the bypass module, the truck doesn't mistakenly read a transponder code from a key but rather the bypass module. If you power the bypass module and you use the first key in the ignition, depending which one is stronger (should be the bypass) the ford computer will read the wrong code. In that case, you won't be able to program the third key. The second key is blank, but the bypass isn't (working together). Does that make sense?
I threw this in because it may save someone money if they know how to do it and are up for it.
I've heard about some locksmiths being able to do the chip programming as PNW EFFONEFIFTY mentioned around my area too (Edmonton). There should be some in the Vancouver area I'd imagine too.
Security of Bypass: You mention if you have a bypass module that completely goes around, that's actually really not uncommon. TODAY you can get much better ones (such as the iDatalink Blade) that connect straight into a Compustar, or others that use RS232 (data - ADS/Fortin, etc). The older ones use a simple 12 volt + ground unfortunately... so any car thief can simply jump into the truck, power it, hotwire the ignition, and off they go! Unfortunately that was the option at the time (back in 2005), now they're better
. I've installed both but obviously I push people for the more secure ones.The blade is nice because it slides right into a Compustar unit and actually runs through the compustar unit for it's bypass functions (connector isn't even on the blade chip).
Security of Remote Start: Many remote start units have a "trigger wire input". Some have by default the trigger wire to "Start when grounded", and the wire exists on the main remote start unit. You literally grab the wire, ground it to chasis, whatever... I know this is off on Compustar by default and I'd imagine it is with most. Good to be aware of though, I change mine to instant trigger.
At the end of the day, there's only really so much one can do anyways.
Last edited by homer; 12-03-2013 at 01:04 PM.
12-03-2013, 01:12 PM
#18
Senior Member
I didn't think you could get the clone for the F150 but I don't see why it can't be possible. Kamison, you already had a factory alarm, are you sure they didn't use the existing bypass module with the new alarm? There would have been an existing one for the factory remote start. That's what I ended up doing. I figured why buy/program another bypass module when I already had one in there (and coded to the truck).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
Now, if that's the case... I only had one key as well! But, because I had a factory remote start and the bypass module installed (and it wasn't cloned), that's technically a "second" key... I wanted a spare key, so what I did was I bought a PATS key on ebay, used my first key in the ignition, used a blank non-chipped key (got Home Depot to cut it) as the second and powered the bypass module at the same time (to simulate the second key chip), then I put the third key in to program it. Saved me about $90 (as the key only cost me $10). Did the same with my wife's Ford Fusion as I only had one key for that too. It's a bit tricky to do and you have to ensure your bypass was wired properly to begin with... I see more and more installers wire bypass modules on permanently which defeats the entire purpose of the chipped key security! Then again, the second you add that remote start you're arguably already decreasing your security anyways (especially if the bypass module is a simple 12 volt power).
12-03-2013, 01:17 PM
#19
Senior Member
My bad Kamison! I re-read that now, I see you only had a alarm before then added the viper + remote start.
$100, that's a good deal! Not joking...
I know you can get PATS RW keys... I wonder if they used one of those and threw it uncut under the dash (another trick installers use to use as a cheaper bypass unit - usually with a relay to switch the antenna down to the uncut key). I'm actually not surprised that BestBuy has found a way to clone them as they'd be encountering this issue quite frequently from customers. I'm looking at bypass kits trying to find a cloneable one LOL. Xpresskit doesn't do it, iDatalink. EIther way, those guys do a lot more remote starts than I do so honestly, they're going to know better than me (and obviously they do - they did it on your truck hahahaha).
Either way, that's a good deal!
$100, that's a good deal! Not joking...
I know you can get PATS RW keys... I wonder if they used one of those and threw it uncut under the dash (another trick installers use to use as a cheaper bypass unit - usually with a relay to switch the antenna down to the uncut key). I'm actually not surprised that BestBuy has found a way to clone them as they'd be encountering this issue quite frequently from customers. I'm looking at bypass kits trying to find a cloneable one LOL. Xpresskit doesn't do it, iDatalink. EIther way, those guys do a lot more remote starts than I do so honestly, they're going to know better than me (and obviously they do - they did it on your truck hahahaha).
Either way, that's a good deal!
Last edited by homer; 12-03-2013 at 02:06 PM.