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The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound

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The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound

 
Old 02-24-2019, 08:52 AM
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I got Mine from a dealer in New york that was selling on ebay for 30 bucks a pop with free shipping
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jefford View Post
Suggestions on non-plastic adjusters?
I got Mine from a dealer in New york that was selling on ebay for 30 bucks a pop with free shipping
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:27 AM
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Ummm.... I'd like non-plastic timing chain guides/adjusters. Suggestions? Part numbers?

This truck has 77k and just wasn't used. It's worth 3 grand with the motor as is and 8.5 or 9 grand repaired. It's super clean and ready to work. Less the plastic timing chain guides are destroyed.

I have 3 tons of engineered, hardened and painted metal that is useless as a result of 1 pound of plastic - crap.

Metal timing guide source? Part #s Please? And thanks in advance. I have to get this truck running this week...

Rock Auto has Seal Power, Coyle and the Melling - all of which are plastic.:\

Last edited by jefford; 02-24-2019 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jefford View Post
Ummm.... I'd like non-plastic timing chain guides/adjusters. Suggestions? Part numbers?

This truck has 77k and just wasn't used. It's worth 3 grand with the motor as is and 8.5 or 9 grand repaired. It's super clean and ready to work. Less the plastic timing chain guides are destroyed.

I have 3 tons of engineered, hardened and painted metal that is useless as a result of 1 pound of plastic - crap.

Metal timing guide source? Part #s Please? And thanks in advance. I have to get this truck running this week...
If you’re that concerned just order the tensioners for a 2v, as they were are metal. Personally I don’t feel it’s necessary; the upgraded plastic, spring loaded tensioners should be good for 150-200k if not more. Will you still have the truck at that point? There’s a reason that neither Ford nor FordTechMakukoco, among other actual experts, propose this solution. The only thing I can think of is chains becoming TOO tight after high rpm runs, or perhaps with the phasers not being locked to the cams, there needs to be some “cushion” to the chain tension.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dukedkt442 View Post


If you’re that concerned just order the tensioners for a 2v, as they were are metal. Personally I don’t feel it’s necessary; the upgraded plastic, spring loaded tensioners should be good for 150-200k if not more. Will you still have the truck at that point? There’s a reason that neither Ford nor FordTechMakukoco, among other actual experts, propose this solution. The only thing I can think of is chains becoming TOO tight after high rpm runs, or perhaps with the phasers not being locked to the cams, there needs to be some “cushion” to the chain tension.
True
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:24 PM
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Thats a very good answer. But engine operating temperature is not a place for plastic. Any kind of plastic. It is an elsatomer made from oil. Common sense says no plastic inside an engine. And the pile of broken bits and pieces... these guides banged around for some time.

I have two different kits in route... the one from Rock Auto for $380ish and the entire thing with Cams and gaskets from CarParts.com for $153. I also have the better oil pump coming from Rock Auto.

Just be nice not to put big sticks of plastic back in.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:16 PM
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Plastic is ok in an engine on static, non rotating assemblies. Has been for years. What do you think that 195* coolant touches? Sure beats chains and metal guides wearing themselves to pieces clogging your oil pump with metal powder. The plastic guides don’t fail because they can’t handle operating temperature, but because the loose metal chains beat the crap out of them from the failed silicone/rubber seals from owners too lazy/uninformed/careless to do anything about the warning signs. Some guys don't switch to the metal tensioners because they're made out of metal, they switch to them because they're mechanical tensioners, not hydraulic. If you’re going insist on a particular part, at least understand why.

I’d rather have big chunks of plastic than the cheap parts you ordered. I predict we’ll be reading threads of “5.4 sucks” and “why won’t it run?” within hours of their installation.

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Old 02-24-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dukedkt442 View Post
Plastic is ok in an engine on static, non rotating assemblies. Has been for years. What do you think that 195* coolant touches? Sure beats chains and metal guides wearing themselves to pieces clogging your oil pump with metal powder. The plastic guides don’t fail because they can’t handle operating temperature, but because the loose metal chains beat the crap out of them from the failed silicone/rubber seals from owners too lazy/uninformed/careless to do anything about the warning signs. Some guys don't switch to the metal tensioners because they're made out of metal, they switch to them because they're mechanical tensioners, not hydraulic. If you’re going insist on a particular part, at least understand why.

I’d rather have big chunks of plastic than the cheap parts you ordered. I predict we’ll be reading threads of “5.4 sucks” and “why won’t it run?” within hours of their installation.
Yes that is exactly why the plastic chain guides fail, because of loose chains beating on them constantly. The chains behave like this due to bad tensioners.
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by palomino6294 View Post
Yes that is exactly why the plastic chain guides fail, because of loose chains beating on them constantly. The chains behave like this due to bad tensioners.
Tensioner seals. As long as the seals remain intact, the tensioners function just fine. Replacing the tensioners and chains at first sign of failure, and the guides would have remained intact. But well over 10k miles of start-ups (like mine), and the guides can't cope.

The main idea here is to understand where the failure points lie, and correct them. The newest tensioners have had their seals redesigned (and possibly the addition of a fail-safe spring... I know the new ones have it, and the originals didn't). My point isn't to decry the use of metal tensioners, but to point out that there are unforeseen longevity issues by design, and also to under stand the system itself.

I might add, I don't see how the metal tensioners can 100% solve the issue: they are blocking off an oil passage, so they must have a seal against the block. If that seal fails, yes, the chain will still have tension due to the mechanical ratchet in the unit, but the cams, phasers, and followers will still be oil starved. Potentially more damage will occur than with the hydraulic tensioners, because the failed plastic tensioners give the tell-tale, and obvious, warning: startup rattle. With the metal tensioners, the warning would be camshaft/follower racket.

Last edited by dukedkt442; 02-25-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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Hey guys, new here. Got a 2008 Expedition that I think may be due for this. Last week, wife was taking it through a drive thru, got some horrible noise and some codes. P0345, P0340, and P0316. I replaced the cam position sensors per the codes. Yesterday, same noise happened for her again, no codes this time. Also, this weekend, noticed a slight misfire on acceleration to highway speeds, but once again no codes. Thinking ata minimum our timing chain and guides might be shot, but also the VCT solenoids? Time to do it all?


Edit. I should mention I don't have any rattle on startup, or noises I can tell beyond injector clicks. I've yet to experience this issue, as it has only happened for her, and only after she's been driving a while and it's warmed up.
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