Certified Pre-owned and a new 5.4L
08-26-2011, 10:18 PM
#1
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Certified Pre-owned and a new 5.4L
I was in the market for a lightly used truck and finally narrowed it down to the Ford, Tundra and the latest Ram. About six weeks into my search I found a pristine 2008 F150 4x4 Lariat with 40,000 miles at Advantage Ford. After working with the dealer for about an hour we agreed on a price and I left the lot. I drove the 75 miles home with no issue.
That evening after dinner, I was backing the truck into the driveway when all of a sudden I noticed a rough idle and a very faint stumble in the engine. I was just easing the throttle when all of a sudden a very pronounced engine knock occurred.
I got out of the vehicle and felt the engine and transmission pans while the engine was running and noticed a heavy metallic knock. Figuring this knock was a busted torque converter we dropped the truck off at a local dealership, Tuttle-Click. While at Tuttle-Click I was introduced to the cam phaser/VCT issue. The mechanic and service writer were not able to replicate the knock so I reenacted the scenario, reverse, brakes applied to simulate backing into a driveway and light throttle application. After about 10 or so seconds the knock started again and the mechanic suggested shutting it down. I spent about five hours that night on various forums researching the 5.4L Triton.
The following day I contacted Advantage Ford, whom I purchased the truck from, and they reminded me it carries a six year, 100,000 mile power train warranty and it was a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle; Ford would treat this as a new vehicle. I was initially interested in undoing the sale but they asked if they could try and make it right; again this truck was in pristine/like new shape and I really wanted it.
The very next Monday, Advantage Ford had the truck towed from my local dealership. Tuesday I received a call from the sales manager who said they couldn't replicate the issue. I again explained how to simulate the condition and the following day they were able to replicate the knock.
Over the next few days I talked with Ford Corporate in Michigan and a service tech in the Salt Lake area. I found a gentleman considered to be the cam phaser/VCT expert in Salt Lake. In talking with him I discovered that the cam chain tensioners have an issue with the seals blowing out which depressurizes the cam chain tensioner and allows the cam chain to slap around at idle (low oil pressure). This can also starve the VCT of oil in the process and damage the camshafts, VCT, etc. He said the first thing he would do is check the engine oil pressure at full operating temperature (get the oil piping hot) and verify it is above 25PSI. If not, then it is indicative of worn rod journals (out of tolerance) in the lower end. The low oil pressure can be caused by several events, usually a cheap oil filter coming apart and clogging the very intricate oil lubrication passages. He also mentioned that it's critical to change the oil often and use a premium filter with a backflow preventer, a device that keeps oil in the system when shutdown. Lastly, worn oil can carbon up in these engines and also plug the intricate oil passages. In my owners manual it lists synthetic 5w-20 as the required oil, not even he knew this.
Thursday I talked with my service manager who had the truck and expressed my concerns about an engine failure at 40,000 miles and the possibility that the previous owner never changed the oil. The thought of repairing the failed internal components after an oil starvation scenario made me cringe as I imagined what could happen many miles down the road with other damaged parts still whirling around. I told the service manager that regardless of what they found or repaired I wanted the oil pressure checked. He reassured me that his dealership or Ford would purchase the vehicle back if I wasn't satisfied with the repair.
The next day they dropped the engine oil pan and found some major issues:
Needless to say Advantage Ford and Corporate took great care of me and installed a complete, Ford remanufactured engine (remanufactured through General Parts Distributors, aka GPD). The engine came complete with water pump, intake manifold, fuel injectors, rails, oil and a filter already installed, plug-n-play style. I was also informed that the only portion of the engine that is remanufactured is the block. Everything else gets the latest revision and the engine is built to year/model specifics for plug-n-play compatibility.
I am now 800 miles into the new engine and very happy with the truck. The engine is barely audible at 70mph and only the faintest tick from the injectors can be heard at idle. I will stick to Wix or Motorcraft filters and a healthy diet of frequent synthetic oil changes.
So far, very impressed with the vehicle.
That evening after dinner, I was backing the truck into the driveway when all of a sudden I noticed a rough idle and a very faint stumble in the engine. I was just easing the throttle when all of a sudden a very pronounced engine knock occurred.
I got out of the vehicle and felt the engine and transmission pans while the engine was running and noticed a heavy metallic knock. Figuring this knock was a busted torque converter we dropped the truck off at a local dealership, Tuttle-Click. While at Tuttle-Click I was introduced to the cam phaser/VCT issue. The mechanic and service writer were not able to replicate the knock so I reenacted the scenario, reverse, brakes applied to simulate backing into a driveway and light throttle application. After about 10 or so seconds the knock started again and the mechanic suggested shutting it down. I spent about five hours that night on various forums researching the 5.4L Triton.
The following day I contacted Advantage Ford, whom I purchased the truck from, and they reminded me it carries a six year, 100,000 mile power train warranty and it was a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle; Ford would treat this as a new vehicle. I was initially interested in undoing the sale but they asked if they could try and make it right; again this truck was in pristine/like new shape and I really wanted it.
The very next Monday, Advantage Ford had the truck towed from my local dealership. Tuesday I received a call from the sales manager who said they couldn't replicate the issue. I again explained how to simulate the condition and the following day they were able to replicate the knock.
Over the next few days I talked with Ford Corporate in Michigan and a service tech in the Salt Lake area. I found a gentleman considered to be the cam phaser/VCT expert in Salt Lake. In talking with him I discovered that the cam chain tensioners have an issue with the seals blowing out which depressurizes the cam chain tensioner and allows the cam chain to slap around at idle (low oil pressure). This can also starve the VCT of oil in the process and damage the camshafts, VCT, etc. He said the first thing he would do is check the engine oil pressure at full operating temperature (get the oil piping hot) and verify it is above 25PSI. If not, then it is indicative of worn rod journals (out of tolerance) in the lower end. The low oil pressure can be caused by several events, usually a cheap oil filter coming apart and clogging the very intricate oil lubrication passages. He also mentioned that it's critical to change the oil often and use a premium filter with a backflow preventer, a device that keeps oil in the system when shutdown. Lastly, worn oil can carbon up in these engines and also plug the intricate oil passages. In my owners manual it lists synthetic 5w-20 as the required oil, not even he knew this.
Thursday I talked with my service manager who had the truck and expressed my concerns about an engine failure at 40,000 miles and the possibility that the previous owner never changed the oil. The thought of repairing the failed internal components after an oil starvation scenario made me cringe as I imagined what could happen many miles down the road with other damaged parts still whirling around. I told the service manager that regardless of what they found or repaired I wanted the oil pressure checked. He reassured me that his dealership or Ford would purchase the vehicle back if I wasn't satisfied with the repair.
The next day they dropped the engine oil pan and found some major issues:
Needless to say Advantage Ford and Corporate took great care of me and installed a complete, Ford remanufactured engine (remanufactured through General Parts Distributors, aka GPD). The engine came complete with water pump, intake manifold, fuel injectors, rails, oil and a filter already installed, plug-n-play style. I was also informed that the only portion of the engine that is remanufactured is the block. Everything else gets the latest revision and the engine is built to year/model specifics for plug-n-play compatibility.
I am now 800 miles into the new engine and very happy with the truck. The engine is barely audible at 70mph and only the faintest tick from the injectors can be heard at idle. I will stick to Wix or Motorcraft filters and a healthy diet of frequent synthetic oil changes.
So far, very impressed with the vehicle.
08-26-2011, 11:48 PM
#5
Had that same issue a week ago.. I pulled over to help my cousin with his broke down car and when I stopped in sounded just like yours... No engine light came on.. I immediately shut it down, waited 10 seconds and fired it back up.. Good as new... Towed a vehicle 45 miles with no issues..
Should I be worried??
Should I be worried??
08-27-2011, 12:14 AM
#6
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Had that same issue a week ago.. I pulled over to help my cousin with his broke down car and when I stopped in sounded just like yours... No engine light came on.. I immediately shut it down, waited 10 seconds and fired it back up.. Good as new... Towed a vehicle 45 miles with no issues..
Should I be worried??
Should I be worried??
It's a crappy scenario, hard to believe it wasn't addressed with a total redesign until 2011 with the 5.0 and 6.0. I was fortunate enough to have a friend recommend that I call a California Lemon Law attorney about the event. The attorney said that a letter went out to all 5.4L 3V owners in CA the month prior about this very same issue. The attorney also contacted Ford Corporate about the truck which may have pushed them towards the new engine. There are some additional protections in CA that would force a manufacturer to purchase a vehicle back if a prior and reasonable attempt has been made to correct the issue. In this particular case, the vehicle had no prior history.
At a minimum I would find out which port mechanics are hooking an oil pressure gauge into and get a value on the lower end with the engine oil at it's thinnest value, very hot. If it's below 25PSI you are on borrowed time. Lastly, my neighbor 10 doors down heard the knock and was surprised that the 2008 Ford had a diesel as an option.
Last edited by knife edge; 08-27-2011 at 12:20 AM.
08-27-2011, 07:33 AM
#7
Originally Posted by knife edge
Very much so. I didn't have an engine check light either. The condition only occurs when you are at a very low idle, in gear with partial to zero throttle applied. In particular, my knock only developed in reverse which makes me think the PCM uses a lower idle value in that gear for safety reasons. The lower RPM leads to lower oil pressure which in conjunction with the leak in the cam chain tensioner causes the VCT to go out of sink with the engine. If you read the report on my engine, not a winning proposition. The technician I talked to in SLC says the newer cam chain tensioners have a better seal to the block.
It's a crappy scenario, hard to believe it wasn't addressed with a total redesign until 2011 with the 5.0 and 6.0. I was fortunate enough to have a friend recommend that I call a California Lemon Law attorney about the event. The attorney said that a letter went out to all 5.4L 3V owners in CA the month prior about this very same issue. The attorney also contacted Ford Corporate about the truck which may have pushed them towards the new engine. There are some additional protections in CA that would force a manufacturer to purchase a vehicle back if a prior and reasonable attempt has been made to correct the issue. In this particular case, the vehicle had no prior history.
At a minimum I would find out which port mechanics are hooking an oil pressure gauge into and get a value on the lower end with the engine oil at it's thinnest value, very hot. If it's below 25PSI you are on borrowed time. Lastly, my neighbor 10 doors down heard the knock and was surprised that the 2008 Ford had a diesel as an option.
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08-27-2011, 08:32 AM
#8
Senior Member
Good to hear a ford dealer stand behind their truck! 
You should be good to go with a new motor. Keep us posted how everything is going with the new install.
You should be good to go with a new motor. Keep us posted how everything is going with the new install.