Anyone order from flagship one ?
11-08-2016, 08:55 PM
#12
@2006 FX4: A few things:
1. How much did Firestone charge you to reprogram the PCM and which Firestone station?
2. Vehicles did not have the computer controlled units in the 1980s (1979 was when the Apple ][+ came out). It took years for the car manufacturers to come out with a ruggidized version of computers that could stand up to the conditions ranging from subzero temperatures to over 150 degrees and could pass the standards that Congress required. I bought a Ford Ranger in the 1990s - it did not come with a computer. You just did the regular tune-up, maybe adjust the carburator and distributor. It was in the late 1990s that I saw my first computer controlled vehicle. I didn't buy my current truck (F-150) until 2006.
The thing that gets me is - is my truck a 2006 model or a 2005 model sold in 2006?
1. How much did Firestone charge you to reprogram the PCM and which Firestone station?
2. Vehicles did not have the computer controlled units in the 1980s (1979 was when the Apple ][+ came out). It took years for the car manufacturers to come out with a ruggidized version of computers that could stand up to the conditions ranging from subzero temperatures to over 150 degrees and could pass the standards that Congress required. I bought a Ford Ranger in the 1990s - it did not come with a computer. You just did the regular tune-up, maybe adjust the carburator and distributor. It was in the late 1990s that I saw my first computer controlled vehicle. I didn't buy my current truck (F-150) until 2006.
The thing that gets me is - is my truck a 2006 model or a 2005 model sold in 2006?
2 - My 1982 911 would like to know why it has a Bosch K-tronic engine management computer that came out on the 1978 models. My 1987 Rx7 was completely controlled by an ECU. Cadillac had Electronic Fuel Injection in 1982. So I'm not quite sure where this idea came from. You can bolt in a brand new, modern bosch ecu into the 911 SC's or 70's/80's 930 turbos, dyno tune it, and be done. No hacksaw install, no wires running the the battery, no extra sensors, completely plug and play.
11-09-2016, 12:06 PM
#13
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Don't get screwed - sue
@bourgeois1269 : Take them to Small Claims Court if they took your money and did not do everything they said they would. In Small Claims court you can sue under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act and get triple your money back plus court costs. I've taken four companies and one doctor to court and won every time. It isn't hard and you DO NOT need a lawyer. You just show up, tell your side, and present your evidence. The other side does also and then the judge makes a decision. Takes about two hours usually.
Some of the things you will need are:
1. Every e-mail message you ever got.
2. Every piece of paper ever sent to you.
3. Any documents you may have signed (electronic or otherwise).
4. If you kept it - a ledger of all phone calls.
5. The ORIGINAL AD placed on eBay (if you went through eBay). Because it says satisfaction is guaranteed. Not just on the PCM but on ANY items you paid for.
Some of the things you will need are:
1. Every e-mail message you ever got.
2. Every piece of paper ever sent to you.
3. Any documents you may have signed (electronic or otherwise).
4. If you kept it - a ledger of all phone calls.
5. The ORIGINAL AD placed on eBay (if you went through eBay). Because it says satisfaction is guaranteed. Not just on the PCM but on ANY items you paid for.
Last edited by markem; 11-09-2016 at 12:19 PM.
11-09-2016, 12:50 PM
#14
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Well, since I've been buying Ford trucks now for a while all I can say is - my trucks didn't have that. :-)
So maybe I stand corrected. :-)
By the way - I called Firestone (Almeda Mall area) and they said they don't do that. Instead, they sent me to a company called "AutoFlashers".
Also - if I may - An electronic fuel injection system isn't a computer. A computer needs a CPU. What that would be is just a few resisters, AND and OR gates to ensure that the amount of fuel was kept flowing at a certain rate. This is like making an electronic/digital clock. There isn't a CPU involved. You just have a set of XOR chips that flip/flop at a given rate and you use that to set up a clock. There is no CPU.
I just went and looked up when the first ECU/PCMs were made. Here is the relevant line:
"The first production engine of this type (using an ECU) was invented ( in 2002) and introduced (in 2009) by Italian automaker Fiat in the Alfa Romeo MiTo."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit
Before this, all of the hype of "computer controlled" this or that actually was small sets of chips doing one specific task. They didn't have CPUs and do not, therefore, rate as computers.
Now that same article does say this:
One of the earliest attempts to use such a unitized and automated device to manage multiple engine control functions simultaneously was the "Kommandogerät" created by BMW in 1939, for their 801 14-cylinder aviation radial engine.
But note that it is an "automated device" and not a computer. (It actually was a mechanical device and not electronic.) Automated devices are also used in food production here in the US. All of the entire assembly process has sensors embedded into them to help control the heat, cold, wetness, etc.... But none of those devices are computers even though they are electronic devices and even though they do have the capability to change whatever they are sensing.
To most people I know this is like splitting hairs but there is a big difference in the computing world between a computer (as a whole) and devices that are created for a specific purpose (such as sensors).
So I still may "stand to be corrected". I'm not an expert on all of the ins and outs of every vehicle ever created. So it is entirely possible I'm wrong. But I can say this - All of the space shuttles ever flown used only three 8-bit computers. They did all calculations and then they compared their answers. If two of them got the same answer they went with that - otherwise they would ask the astronauts for help. 90% of everything on the space shuttles used toggle switches to activate or deactivate them. I used to program the space shuttle simulator. It was a real shock to me when I found that out. :-)
So maybe I stand corrected. :-)
By the way - I called Firestone (Almeda Mall area) and they said they don't do that. Instead, they sent me to a company called "AutoFlashers".
Also - if I may - An electronic fuel injection system isn't a computer. A computer needs a CPU. What that would be is just a few resisters, AND and OR gates to ensure that the amount of fuel was kept flowing at a certain rate. This is like making an electronic/digital clock. There isn't a CPU involved. You just have a set of XOR chips that flip/flop at a given rate and you use that to set up a clock. There is no CPU.
I just went and looked up when the first ECU/PCMs were made. Here is the relevant line:
"The first production engine of this type (using an ECU) was invented ( in 2002) and introduced (in 2009) by Italian automaker Fiat in the Alfa Romeo MiTo."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit
Before this, all of the hype of "computer controlled" this or that actually was small sets of chips doing one specific task. They didn't have CPUs and do not, therefore, rate as computers.
Now that same article does say this:
One of the earliest attempts to use such a unitized and automated device to manage multiple engine control functions simultaneously was the "Kommandogerät" created by BMW in 1939, for their 801 14-cylinder aviation radial engine.
But note that it is an "automated device" and not a computer. (It actually was a mechanical device and not electronic.) Automated devices are also used in food production here in the US. All of the entire assembly process has sensors embedded into them to help control the heat, cold, wetness, etc.... But none of those devices are computers even though they are electronic devices and even though they do have the capability to change whatever they are sensing.
To most people I know this is like splitting hairs but there is a big difference in the computing world between a computer (as a whole) and devices that are created for a specific purpose (such as sensors).
So I still may "stand to be corrected". I'm not an expert on all of the ins and outs of every vehicle ever created. So it is entirely possible I'm wrong. But I can say this - All of the space shuttles ever flown used only three 8-bit computers. They did all calculations and then they compared their answers. If two of them got the same answer they went with that - otherwise they would ask the astronauts for help. 90% of everything on the space shuttles used toggle switches to activate or deactivate them. I used to program the space shuttle simulator. It was a real shock to me when I found that out. :-)
11-09-2016, 11:57 PM
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I've been done with flagship for a while now but why is someone else mentioning "firestone" , I know flagship 1 is nothing but a scam company out of NY and I live in New Orleans so I did all I could and can only help warn other ppl now.
11-10-2016, 12:16 AM
#16
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Firestone
You must have missed one or two messages.
2006 FX4 said that Firestone programmed his PCM for him. So I asked how much. I also called the Firestone at Almeda Mall and they said they didn't do programming of PCMs. Instead, they had turned that over to a cojmpany called AutoFlashers.
On your problem - yes. It has to be within something like 90 days. There are some restrictions on filing. Most of it has to do with you needing to have enough evidence to prove that they were acting deceptively.
The first time I took a company to court I was really scared and uncertain what would happen. But I won. I've taken lawyers to court, one of my doctors, and three companies. Won all of them. The truth is - they are just people - just like you. They make mistakes. I give them several chances to correct the problem. If they don't - I take them to court because usually they don't want to give me my money back. In Texas, the worst people to take to court are small sole proprietorships. Hard to collect. One of the cases I won $65,000.00 but have not been able to collect.
An old World War II aviation pilot got screwed around by a company. I talked with him. He decided to sue and won. Since then he has sued several companies. Winning each time. Even against UPS once. They completely destroyed some music rolls he sent through UPS. He took them to court. The lawyer for UPS said "What were these things worth when you bought them?" He responded with "That doesn't make any difference. What makes a difference is what I sold them for." He had sold them for $100 a roll. Originally they probably cost $0.05 each. He also could make them. But it would take him months to make one. :-/
2006 FX4 said that Firestone programmed his PCM for him. So I asked how much. I also called the Firestone at Almeda Mall and they said they didn't do programming of PCMs. Instead, they had turned that over to a cojmpany called AutoFlashers.
On your problem - yes. It has to be within something like 90 days. There are some restrictions on filing. Most of it has to do with you needing to have enough evidence to prove that they were acting deceptively.
The first time I took a company to court I was really scared and uncertain what would happen. But I won. I've taken lawyers to court, one of my doctors, and three companies. Won all of them. The truth is - they are just people - just like you. They make mistakes. I give them several chances to correct the problem. If they don't - I take them to court because usually they don't want to give me my money back. In Texas, the worst people to take to court are small sole proprietorships. Hard to collect. One of the cases I won $65,000.00 but have not been able to collect.
An old World War II aviation pilot got screwed around by a company. I talked with him. He decided to sue and won. Since then he has sued several companies. Winning each time. Even against UPS once. They completely destroyed some music rolls he sent through UPS. He took them to court. The lawyer for UPS said "What were these things worth when you bought them?" He responded with "That doesn't make any difference. What makes a difference is what I sold them for." He had sold them for $100 a roll. Originally they probably cost $0.05 each. He also could make them. But it would take him months to make one. :-/
11-10-2016, 10:58 AM
#18
Well, since I've been buying Ford trucks now for a while all I can say is - my trucks didn't have that. :-)
So maybe I stand corrected. :-)
By the way - I called Firestone (Almeda Mall area) and they said they don't do that. Instead, they sent me to a company called "AutoFlashers".
Also - if I may - An electronic fuel injection system isn't a computer. A computer needs a CPU. What that would be is just a few resisters, AND and OR gates to ensure that the amount of fuel was kept flowing at a certain rate. This is like making an electronic/digital clock. There isn't a CPU involved. You just have a set of XOR chips that flip/flop at a given rate and you use that to set up a clock. There is no CPU.
I just went and looked up when the first ECU/PCMs were made. Here is the relevant line:
"The first production engine of this type (using an ECU) was invented ( in 2002) and introduced (in 2009) by Italian automaker Fiat in the Alfa Romeo MiTo."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit
Before this, all of the hype of "computer controlled" this or that actually was small sets of chips doing one specific task. They didn't have CPUs and do not, therefore, rate as computers.
Now that same article does say this:
One of the earliest attempts to use such a unitized and automated device to manage multiple engine control functions simultaneously was the "Kommandogerät" created by BMW in 1939, for their 801 14-cylinder aviation radial engine.
But note that it is an "automated device" and not a computer. (It actually was a mechanical device and not electronic.) Automated devices are also used in food production here in the US. All of the entire assembly process has sensors embedded into them to help control the heat, cold, wetness, etc.... But none of those devices are computers even though they are electronic devices and even though they do have the capability to change whatever they are sensing.
To most people I know this is like splitting hairs but there is a big difference in the computing world between a computer (as a whole) and devices that are created for a specific purpose (such as sensors).
So I still may "stand to be corrected". I'm not an expert on all of the ins and outs of every vehicle ever created. So it is entirely possible I'm wrong. But I can say this - All of the space shuttles ever flown used only three 8-bit computers. They did all calculations and then they compared their answers. If two of them got the same answer they went with that - otherwise they would ask the astronauts for help. 90% of everything on the space shuttles used toggle switches to activate or deactivate them. I used to program the space shuttle simulator. It was a real shock to me when I found that out. :-)
So maybe I stand corrected. :-)
By the way - I called Firestone (Almeda Mall area) and they said they don't do that. Instead, they sent me to a company called "AutoFlashers".
Also - if I may - An electronic fuel injection system isn't a computer. A computer needs a CPU. What that would be is just a few resisters, AND and OR gates to ensure that the amount of fuel was kept flowing at a certain rate. This is like making an electronic/digital clock. There isn't a CPU involved. You just have a set of XOR chips that flip/flop at a given rate and you use that to set up a clock. There is no CPU.
I just went and looked up when the first ECU/PCMs were made. Here is the relevant line:
"The first production engine of this type (using an ECU) was invented ( in 2002) and introduced (in 2009) by Italian automaker Fiat in the Alfa Romeo MiTo."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit
Before this, all of the hype of "computer controlled" this or that actually was small sets of chips doing one specific task. They didn't have CPUs and do not, therefore, rate as computers.
Now that same article does say this:
One of the earliest attempts to use such a unitized and automated device to manage multiple engine control functions simultaneously was the "Kommandogerät" created by BMW in 1939, for their 801 14-cylinder aviation radial engine.
But note that it is an "automated device" and not a computer. (It actually was a mechanical device and not electronic.) Automated devices are also used in food production here in the US. All of the entire assembly process has sensors embedded into them to help control the heat, cold, wetness, etc.... But none of those devices are computers even though they are electronic devices and even though they do have the capability to change whatever they are sensing.
To most people I know this is like splitting hairs but there is a big difference in the computing world between a computer (as a whole) and devices that are created for a specific purpose (such as sensors).
So I still may "stand to be corrected". I'm not an expert on all of the ins and outs of every vehicle ever created. So it is entirely possible I'm wrong. But I can say this - All of the space shuttles ever flown used only three 8-bit computers. They did all calculations and then they compared their answers. If two of them got the same answer they went with that - otherwise they would ask the astronauts for help. 90% of everything on the space shuttles used toggle switches to activate or deactivate them. I used to program the space shuttle simulator. It was a real shock to me when I found that out. :-)
. I was thinking along the lines of circuit board = computer. I just remembered something. Before I got the new pcm, my local mechanic took the truck to Ford to be reflashed. It was also 250$, they swore up and down everything functioned normally after re flash but it did not. My mechanic gave me credit to make up for the extra cost since Ford misdiagnosed the problem and he had as well. I only give these people one chance so needless to say I decided to take the truck to a place with more experience with domestic trucks. That's why I called up firestone and took it in.
01-04-2017, 01:51 PM
#19
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The Next Step
Ok. I just got royally shafted by Flagship One. So for me - as soon as I have the money - I will be filing in Small Claims Court. Flagship One never got me a working PCM. After sending them to MacHaike Ford here in Houston, Texas they agreed to send me S keys instead of SA keys. The S keys turned in the ignition the without a problem. For those of you who do not know. The original encryption system used was a 40bit encryption system. The newer systems use an 80bit encryption system. SA = 80bit, S = 40bit. But the programmer at FlagShip One kept installing the 80bit encryption system even though they had been told t use the 40bit encryption system. Well, I got rid of the truck so I no longer needed the PCM. I'd been trying to send it back but because of the holidays (or maybe they were just stalling) I could never get an RMA. So now they are saying "Tough luck - too late". I don't think so. I'm out of work and trying to come up with enough money just to stay in the house - but now I am also working on getting enough money together to sue FlagShip One in Small Claims court. Wish me luck guys and gals! I've taken six companies to Small Claims court and I haven't lost yet. Here's hoping number seven is the same. (Because you never know.) :-)
When the case is over I will post how it turned out.
When the case is over I will post how it turned out.
01-04-2017, 03:46 PM
#20
Senior Member
I have a 'SA' Fusion key cut and programmed to my truck, along with the OEM 'S' keys. Apparently the 'SA' keys will accept either 40 bit or 80 bit, but Flagship One was loading the wrong encryption.