5.4 top end rebuild, still running bad
07-24-2019, 12:10 PM
#21
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
So sorry to hear of your troubles . I don't encourage a timing job with paid labor. Its just too labor intensive. I know several mechanics who have screwed up the timing job. It takes a lot of understanding and a paid person is in a hurry . If the guy had not done a lot of these I can understand your problems.
If the owner is willing to learn and slowly do the job its not that difficult ,not many extra/or special tools are required ..
But we always encourage an evaluation of valve train and crank end play first . It really increases your knowledge to do one. Dropping the oil pan also tells a lot .
You tube has good info on these jobs ,ford tech malukoco/eric south main auto --really good help .
Some of us have developed a simpler way to do this job ,it can be done more than one way.
One mech I know accidentally screwed up timing on customers truck by 2 teeth ,he bought it from him for junk then fixed it and made another profit selling it fixed .That's outrageous behavior but it is done more than I think .
I can't see what was messed up on your engine to let it run good and then implode ,not with out some more info . Usually if its that far out of time it wont start and jams /bends valves right away .We hand turn the crank 2 full cw rotations to prove no valve piston contact before attempting a start or putting timing cover back on ..
If you go reman try to get the new hv melling oil pump to come with it . Oil is very very important on this hydraulically controlled engine ..
If the owner is willing to learn and slowly do the job its not that difficult ,not many extra/or special tools are required ..
But we always encourage an evaluation of valve train and crank end play first . It really increases your knowledge to do one. Dropping the oil pan also tells a lot .
You tube has good info on these jobs ,ford tech malukoco/eric south main auto --really good help .
Some of us have developed a simpler way to do this job ,it can be done more than one way.
One mech I know accidentally screwed up timing on customers truck by 2 teeth ,he bought it from him for junk then fixed it and made another profit selling it fixed .That's outrageous behavior but it is done more than I think .
I can't see what was messed up on your engine to let it run good and then implode ,not with out some more info . Usually if its that far out of time it wont start and jams /bends valves right away .We hand turn the crank 2 full cw rotations to prove no valve piston contact before attempting a start or putting timing cover back on ..
If you go reman try to get the new hv melling oil pump to come with it . Oil is very very important on this hydraulically controlled engine ..
07-27-2019, 12:16 AM
#22
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It is a tough decision for sure. On the transmission, they wear out, they are not nearly as expensive as the engine to have redone. I did mine about 15k miles ago and it cost me around $1800-$2000 to have a transmissions shop rebuild it. The key on your specific scenario is do you have proof of fluid changes on the transmission. If not, I'd be somewhat concerned. I tow constantly with mine.
All it took was for me to price out a new truck to decide to keep mine and do a refresh. Cost of the new trucks are ridiculous. I'm a cash guy, hate taking a loan out on anything. The only reason any normal person can afford them is they are doing 30 year house loans on them.(jk) Anytime you are feeling bad about the cost, divide out what you've spent by 24 months. The 10k (very rough total) I put in mine(total refresh engine, transmission and a few other things), 24 months out, that works out to a $400 dollar car payment. . . If I drive it for four years . . that's $200 a month. . I'll take that anyday. Only way I lose is if I wreck it.
I would ask for a parts list on Jasper and who manufactures what parts they are putting in them before I made a decision to go with one of those. Goes back to not trusting anyone.
One other thing I do is I keep a beater around so that if something does go wrong that takes a while to fix I'm not stranded.
kw
All it took was for me to price out a new truck to decide to keep mine and do a refresh. Cost of the new trucks are ridiculous. I'm a cash guy, hate taking a loan out on anything. The only reason any normal person can afford them is they are doing 30 year house loans on them.(jk) Anytime you are feeling bad about the cost, divide out what you've spent by 24 months. The 10k (very rough total) I put in mine(total refresh engine, transmission and a few other things), 24 months out, that works out to a $400 dollar car payment. . . If I drive it for four years . . that's $200 a month. . I'll take that anyday. Only way I lose is if I wreck it.
I would ask for a parts list on Jasper and who manufactures what parts they are putting in them before I made a decision to go with one of those. Goes back to not trusting anyone.
One other thing I do is I keep a beater around so that if something does go wrong that takes a while to fix I'm not stranded.
kw
The best quote I was offered was $6700 out the door. That is with a Jasper motor. That really is not a bad price... Almost cheaper $1000 cheaper than the other quotes I received. Not to mention I thought about doing this myself, and Jasper would have sent one directly to me for around $6200. Based off the time I have, I will pay $500 extra in labor any day. All in all, I am content with what I decided to go with. I now would just love to get my $3500 back from the other mechanic that blew it up. I am sure that will be a whole other fiasco within itself .
07-29-2019, 10:05 AM
#23
As much money as it seems like at one time, it really will be cheaper than buying a new truck. Plus, instead of buying some used truck that I don't know what its been through, I will have a brand new motor.
The best quote I was offered was $6700 out the door. That is with a Jasper motor. That really is not a bad price... Almost cheaper $1000 cheaper than the other quotes I received. Not to mention I thought about doing this myself, and Jasper would have sent one directly to me for around $6200. Based off the time I have, I will pay $500 extra in labor any day. All in all, I am content with what I decided to go with. I now would just love to get my $3500 back from the other mechanic that blew it up. I am sure that will be a whole other fiasco within itself .
The best quote I was offered was $6700 out the door. That is with a Jasper motor. That really is not a bad price... Almost cheaper $1000 cheaper than the other quotes I received. Not to mention I thought about doing this myself, and Jasper would have sent one directly to me for around $6200. Based off the time I have, I will pay $500 extra in labor any day. All in all, I am content with what I decided to go with. I now would just love to get my $3500 back from the other mechanic that blew it up. I am sure that will be a whole other fiasco within itself .
Other decisions I had to make in progress was, 1. Do I replace the COPs, 2. Do I replace the injectors. I chose no on both of them. . The mechanic doing the swap indicated they were both low failure items and encouraged me to not replace them and so far he was right. . .
Thx.
04-22-2020, 11:29 AM
#24
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Yea its not just a little bit cheaper than new either. . . Paying cash and not going in debt is something that is hard to do these days but very necessary if you're ever going to get ahead. Worse yet is going in debt and buying a vehicle with problems. Read over on the 2015-present form, find the oil consumption thread. . new technology always has bugs but that is a big one.
Other decisions I had to make in progress was, 1. Do I replace the COPs, 2. Do I replace the injectors. I chose no on both of them. . The mechanic doing the swap indicated they were both low failure items and encouraged me to not replace them and so far he was right. . .
Thx.
Other decisions I had to make in progress was, 1. Do I replace the COPs, 2. Do I replace the injectors. I chose no on both of them. . The mechanic doing the swap indicated they were both low failure items and encouraged me to not replace them and so far he was right. . .
Thx.
So sorry to hear of your troubles . I don't encourage a timing job with paid labor. Its just too labor intensive. I know several mechanics who have screwed up the timing job. It takes a lot of understanding and a paid person is in a hurry . If the guy had not done a lot of these I can understand your problems.
If the owner is willing to learn and slowly do the job its not that difficult ,not many extra/or special tools are required ..
But we always encourage an evaluation of valve train and crank end play first . It really increases your knowledge to do one. Dropping the oil pan also tells a lot .
You tube has good info on these jobs ,ford tech malukoco/eric south main auto --really good help .
Some of us have developed a simpler way to do this job ,it can be done more than one way.
One mech I know accidentally screwed up timing on customers truck by 2 teeth ,he bought it from him for junk then fixed it and made another profit selling it fixed .That's outrageous behavior but it is done more than I think .
I can't see what was messed up on your engine to let it run good and then implode ,not with out some more info . Usually if its that far out of time it wont start and jams /bends valves right away .We hand turn the crank 2 full cw rotations to prove no valve piston contact before attempting a start or putting timing cover back on ..
If you go reman try to get the new hv melling oil pump to come with it . Oil is very very important on this hydraulically controlled engine ..
If the owner is willing to learn and slowly do the job its not that difficult ,not many extra/or special tools are required ..
But we always encourage an evaluation of valve train and crank end play first . It really increases your knowledge to do one. Dropping the oil pan also tells a lot .
You tube has good info on these jobs ,ford tech malukoco/eric south main auto --really good help .
Some of us have developed a simpler way to do this job ,it can be done more than one way.
One mech I know accidentally screwed up timing on customers truck by 2 teeth ,he bought it from him for junk then fixed it and made another profit selling it fixed .That's outrageous behavior but it is done more than I think .
I can't see what was messed up on your engine to let it run good and then implode ,not with out some more info . Usually if its that far out of time it wont start and jams /bends valves right away .We hand turn the crank 2 full cw rotations to prove no valve piston contact before attempting a start or putting timing cover back on ..
If you go reman try to get the new hv melling oil pump to come with it . Oil is very very important on this hydraulically controlled engine ..
When I had the new mechanic do the Jasper installation, I asked him to keep an eye out for anything that seemed out of place. After he tore it down, he discovered that the timing chain tensioners were installed backwards. Keep in mind, these are stamped L & R for a reason. Based on the research I have done and opinions I got from some mechanics, this is why the motor ran well after initial repair, but eventually jumped back to the issues. With a 5.4 tensioner obtaining its tenseness hydraulically, it makes sense on why we had failure. If the chain tensioner is not lined up on the correct hole to receive its hydraulic pressure, well, it takes a simple minded person to finish the rest. I would like to think this caused slack in the chain and caused it to jump time. When the old mechanic called me to come look at the blown motor, the timing system was all in place. I would not be surprised if I found it to be true that he doctored it up to look as if it had not jumped time, but that is something I probably can't and won't prove.
Moving on from that, I would like to give a review of my Jasper Engine. I went with the option that deletes the use of the VVT (Variable Valve Timer). So far, I have 0 complaints. I ran into a Jasper rep at swap meet and he talked with me for over an hour about this entire situation. I love a quality product, but I am even more of a sucker for high end customer support. I feel like that's what these guys are about and that is what I hope to find as a customer. I would recommend this company to anybody considering using them.
I appreciate everyone's help and support as I went through this project. You guys are great!👌
04-26-2020, 11:04 AM
#25
I had a similar issue, myself. I did the timing job on an engine with 120k, and did all of it with factory service manual and FordTechMakuloco's videos as a guide. I did the oil pump while I was there. The oil pump failed in just over 20 miles, and seized the engine. I ended up doing a swap with an ATK reman. I'm not even through the break in, but it's feeling really nice.
I was quoted $8500 for the swap, but even after the timing job that went bad, and the engine swap, I'm at about $5500 so far. Now my truck is running beautifully, and it's nice knowing I've got a fresh engine with a 3 year warranty.
I was quoted $8500 for the swap, but even after the timing job that went bad, and the engine swap, I'm at about $5500 so far. Now my truck is running beautifully, and it's nice knowing I've got a fresh engine with a 3 year warranty.
04-26-2020, 07:51 PM
#27
Melling. I've used their stuff before and never had issues, and even did steps to prime the thing. I must have just gotten a bad one. It happens, I suppose.
04-26-2020, 07:55 PM
#28
Senior Member
How did you prime it? I primed it via the oil filter inlet. I used a transmission filler tube that you normally screw onto a bottle of transmission fluid, and did it with a bottle of oil and squeezed oil into that (about half a quart), then installed the oil filter (as suggested by a video done by Melling or Cloyes, I believe). It still took about a minute of off and on cranking to get oil to flow. My oil pressure with the M340HV is 70PSI cold idle, as high as 80psi cold at RPM above 1200, and hot idle of 35psi, and max of 60-65psi hot above 1200RPM (stock pressure)
04-26-2020, 09:31 PM
#29
How did you prime it? I primed it via the oil filter inlet. I used a transmission filler tube that you normally screw onto a bottle of transmission fluid, and did it with a bottle of oil and squeezed oil into that (about half a quart), then installed the oil filter (as suggested by a video done by Melling or Cloyes, I believe). It still took about a minute of off and on cranking to get oil to flow. My oil pressure with the M340HV is 70PSI cold idle, as high as 80psi cold at RPM above 1200, and hot idle of 35psi, and max of 60-65psi hot above 1200RPM (stock pressure)
Nearly the same. I poured in fresh oil to the inlet and rolled the pump by hand, until it was coming out the outlet. Then installed and cranked with the crank sensor unplugged to let the thing prime and get up to pressure. Then crank some more to allow it to circulate. Then run as normal from then on. I'm not really sure what went wrong, but the oil pump sure felt a bit chewy after removing it, and there was no damage to the impeller faces where it interfaces on the crankshaft flats.
I've sent it back to Melling with the invoices for the repair work, so hopefully they will cover it. If not, I suppose I'll just have to chalk it up to a fluke of the manufacturer.