5.4 3V still doesn't run good tricky one
04-09-2017, 07:59 AM
#21
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
One thing that turned me off was that this truck converted for LPG
I have heard nothing but grief with these on other vehicles and totally out of my experience . No telling what mods done and why. Cats and O2 modified etc . But I am watching torque pro discussion as I just got the bluetooth and the android with pro ,still tax time-- not fun .
I would chime in on vacuum leak testing with homemade smoke machine as I never had luck with the other methods and my vacuum leaks were remote from intake .
One underneath a battery mount and another the gas tank seal for the fuel pump . Both very hard to get to . But the norm is the intake manifold gasket . Granted- this will be an interesting fix .
Your vacuum leak may very well be on your IWE controls on 4wd system . That is a troublesome topic on here but I do not have 4wd .
Thank god for all the wonderful bbc programs that far outshine hollywood ,masterpiece theater favorites ,good character actors not spoiled pretty brats. etc . Good luck mate.
I would chime in on vacuum leak testing with homemade smoke machine as I never had luck with the other methods and my vacuum leaks were remote from intake .
One underneath a battery mount and another the gas tank seal for the fuel pump . Both very hard to get to . But the norm is the intake manifold gasket . Granted- this will be an interesting fix .
Your vacuum leak may very well be on your IWE controls on 4wd system . That is a troublesome topic on here but I do not have 4wd .
Thank god for all the wonderful bbc programs that far outshine hollywood ,masterpiece theater favorites ,good character actors not spoiled pretty brats. etc . Good luck mate.
04-10-2017, 05:30 AM
#22
I have heard nothing but grief with these on other vehicles and totally out of my experience . No telling what mods done and why. Cats and O2 modified etc . But I am watching torque pro discussion as I just got the bluetooth and the android with pro ,still tax time-- not fun .
I would chime in on vacuum leak testing with homemade smoke machine as I never had luck with the other methods and my vacuum leaks were remote from intake .
One underneath a battery mount and another the gas tank seal for the fuel pump . Both very hard to get to . But the norm is the intake manifold gasket . Granted- this will be an interesting fix .
Your vacuum leak may very well be on your IWE controls on 4wd system . That is a troublesome topic on here but I do not have 4wd .
Thank god for all the wonderful bbc programs that far outshine hollywood ,masterpiece theater favorites ,good character actors not spoiled pretty brats. etc . Good luck mate.
I would chime in on vacuum leak testing with homemade smoke machine as I never had luck with the other methods and my vacuum leaks were remote from intake .
One underneath a battery mount and another the gas tank seal for the fuel pump . Both very hard to get to . But the norm is the intake manifold gasket . Granted- this will be an interesting fix .
Your vacuum leak may very well be on your IWE controls on 4wd system . That is a troublesome topic on here but I do not have 4wd .
Thank god for all the wonderful bbc programs that far outshine hollywood ,masterpiece theater favorites ,good character actors not spoiled pretty brats. etc . Good luck mate.
Prins LPG conversion is very refined(cost about $2000 fitted) and since we have to pay $1.5 ish for liter of petrol LPG is only way to go with 2and half ton V8...even its just my toy
Yea BBC still good stuf even they ask for more money every year...but who doesn't?
Last edited by LudoUK; 04-10-2017 at 06:08 AM.
04-10-2017, 06:15 AM
#23
adapter good...dumb me
Sorry about your difficulties with Torque Pro. It happens in situations where multiple electronic devices have to work together - ie: PCM (different manufacturers), Phone (different manufacturers), Bluetooth OBDII adapter (different manufacturers). Amazing anything works!
But your screenshot shows two troubling things -- The "RED" Bluetooth Adapter in upper right indicates Torque is having trouble communicating with it. And as you mentioned the "Faulty OBD Adapter" at the bottom.
What Bluetooth adapter are you using. I've been lucky. I have forever successful used a cheap China one off ebay - Model HHOBD. I originally paid $12.00. I notice they are now #30 bucks - but still not bad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HHOBD-Tor...-/150933891155?
Seller has 11,000 feedbacks with 99.8 Positive.
ALSO I Note: Each of those "Fuel Status" gauges are individual gauges that can be added to any dashboard screen. A Long Tap on one SHOULD pop up a screen allowing you to Delete it from this dashboard.... or move / drag it to another dashboard screen... is that NOT the case? Same is the case with that "Component Status" gauge so you can see the gauges behind it - or you can "Move it to Back" - behind the other gauge. If this isn't the case - I guess I would suspect some problem with phone/Torque app somehow but have never experienced such a problem.
But, to me, getting this facility working is most important in diagnosing your truck.
But your screenshot shows two troubling things -- The "RED" Bluetooth Adapter in upper right indicates Torque is having trouble communicating with it. And as you mentioned the "Faulty OBD Adapter" at the bottom.
What Bluetooth adapter are you using. I've been lucky. I have forever successful used a cheap China one off ebay - Model HHOBD. I originally paid $12.00. I notice they are now #30 bucks - but still not bad.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HHOBD-Tor...-/150933891155?
Seller has 11,000 feedbacks with 99.8 Positive.
ALSO I Note: Each of those "Fuel Status" gauges are individual gauges that can be added to any dashboard screen. A Long Tap on one SHOULD pop up a screen allowing you to Delete it from this dashboard.... or move / drag it to another dashboard screen... is that NOT the case? Same is the case with that "Component Status" gauge so you can see the gauges behind it - or you can "Move it to Back" - behind the other gauge. If this isn't the case - I guess I would suspect some problem with phone/Torque app somehow but have never experienced such a problem.
But, to me, getting this facility working is most important in diagnosing your truck.
Got all data...now need to find out how to get fuel trims...
im slowly getting there
04-10-2017, 10:08 AM
#24
LightningRod
Yes, it is REALLY a tricky one
This is the easy part. (Long Tap on a blank spot on any dashboard screen, choose gauge type ["HalfDial(Needle) works best for fuel trims], Scroll through available sensors & select Fuel Trim [Fuel Trim (Bank1 or 2 as appropriate)], choose gauge size, Drag it to desired screen location.)
The harder part is in your thread title - "tricky one".
Having ZERO experience/knowledge with a petro conversions - I've been using your situation as therapy (the 'anti-demintia' exercises, you know. lol). Can only use what I 'do know' (much less than it's counter-part), and try to design a conversion in my mind. BE DAMNED if I can see how the conversion can be accomplished where you can switch back and forth between LPG and liquid petrol without some significant changes in the PCM software.
1st problem I run into is - guess what! - Fuel Trims! To shut off liquid gas, the 'injectors' have to be shut off - or Fuel Rail Pressure sent to ZERO - which would run injectors dry and probably ruin them. I do not think (or know) if injectors would function with a vapor fuel?? Trying to disable them (OR the Fuel Rail Pressure) will produce a DTC.
2nd problem I run into is - How does the PCM control the LPG vapor into intake ports to establish proper Stoichiometry with readings from the O2 Sensors???? Hell, I realize I don't even know WHAT the proper Fuel/Air "Ratio" should be for an internal combustion engine to run properly on LPG.
BUT - I refered back to your original post, and you stated:
At that point my head exploded! I realized the full extent of my inability to be any real assistance. Other than doing a good job doing 'long distance hoping the best' for you and give you pointers on Torque Pro.
Good Luck mate!
04-10-2017, 11:34 AM
#25
This is the easy part. (Long Tap on a blank spot on any dashboard screen, choose gauge type ["HalfDial(Needle) works best for fuel trims], Scroll through available sensors & select Fuel Trim [Fuel Trim (Bank1 or 2 as appropriate)], choose gauge size, Drag it to desired screen location.)
The harder part is in your thread title - "tricky one".
Having ZERO experience/knowledge with a petro conversions - I've been using your situation as therapy (the 'anti-demintia' exercises, you know. lol). Can only use what I 'do know' (much less than it's counter-part), and try to design a conversion in my mind. BE DAMNED if I can see how the conversion can be accomplished where you can switch back and forth between LPG and liquid petrol without some significant changes in the PCM software.
1st problem I run into is - guess what! - Fuel Trims! To shut off liquid gas, the 'injectors' have to be shut off - or Fuel Rail Pressure sent to ZERO - which would run injectors dry and probably ruin them. I do not think (or know) if injectors would function with a vapor fuel?? Trying to disable them (OR the Fuel Rail Pressure) will produce a DTC.
2nd problem I run into is - How does the PCM control the LPG vapor into intake ports to establish proper Stoichiometry with readings from the O2 Sensors???? Hell, I realize I don't even know WHAT the proper Fuel/Air "Ratio" should be for an internal combustion engine to run properly on LPG.
BUT - I refered back to your original post, and you stated:
At that point my head exploded! I realized the full extent of my inability to be any real assistance. Other than doing a good job doing 'long distance hoping the best' for you and give you pointers on Torque Pro.
Good Luck mate!
The harder part is in your thread title - "tricky one".
Having ZERO experience/knowledge with a petro conversions - I've been using your situation as therapy (the 'anti-demintia' exercises, you know. lol). Can only use what I 'do know' (much less than it's counter-part), and try to design a conversion in my mind. BE DAMNED if I can see how the conversion can be accomplished where you can switch back and forth between LPG and liquid petrol without some significant changes in the PCM software.
1st problem I run into is - guess what! - Fuel Trims! To shut off liquid gas, the 'injectors' have to be shut off - or Fuel Rail Pressure sent to ZERO - which would run injectors dry and probably ruin them. I do not think (or know) if injectors would function with a vapor fuel?? Trying to disable them (OR the Fuel Rail Pressure) will produce a DTC.
2nd problem I run into is - How does the PCM control the LPG vapor into intake ports to establish proper Stoichiometry with readings from the O2 Sensors???? Hell, I realize I don't even know WHAT the proper Fuel/Air "Ratio" should be for an internal combustion engine to run properly on LPG.
BUT - I refered back to your original post, and you stated:
At that point my head exploded! I realized the full extent of my inability to be any real assistance. Other than doing a good job doing 'long distance hoping the best' for you and give you pointers on Torque Pro.
Good Luck mate!
Yes it looks complicated, but thanks to many people using LPG in Holland (and getting tax relieve) Prins developed realy good system which is using car PCM and all sensors with its own PCM together and is able to use all info for optimal gas burning. Yes petrol injectors are shut and LPG injectors open when on gas. Petrol injectors are then more weak to get cloged as used only for short period of time until engine warm up and they sit in high temp after...If you want to know more google Prins LPG system...
04-13-2017, 05:52 AM
#27
update
ok...so fuel trim for bank 1 is all on 20% so lean condition exist....now i need to find out airleak.
My truck is getting louder every day so hope its just somewhere after exaust manifold before O2sensor and not exhaust manifold gasket itself(been replaced already 30k ish miles ago).
Just wondering if its worth to check O2 sensor in this stage....im not very keen with spraying anything into intake
My truck is getting louder every day so hope its just somewhere after exaust manifold before O2sensor and not exhaust manifold gasket itself(been replaced already 30k ish miles ago).
Just wondering if its worth to check O2 sensor in this stage....im not very keen with spraying anything into intake
04-13-2017, 10:25 AM
#28
LightningRod
I understand your "not very keen with spraying anything into intake" ---- BUT, (since you have live data scanner capability), far the best way to diagnose anything on these vehicles is to _challenge_ associated sensors and verify their 'proper' / expected / or un-expected response.
A vacuum leak can be found quickly by monitoring live data short term fuel trim while spraying a combustible all around possible leak points. I prefer using an UNLIT propane torch - its much less damaging to rubber components than liquid sprays. But when you hit a vacuum leak point - the short term fuel trim for that bank will go NUTS. You can verify expected results by spraying it into the cold air intake. If no reaction - the O2 sensor would not be reporting the additional richness. (I like using a Torque Pro screen with both fuel trims - AND upstream O2 sensors. - Tests both at the same time.)
I assume_??? we are testing using Petrol. I read up on your "Prins" LPG system and it is fascinating they can seamlessly switch between Petrol/LPG still using the PCM closed system. Be that the case, I can't think of any reason why the same test would not be applicable with either. If the lean condition exists on one and not the other - I would have to go start studying up some more, but that would make me think it was not a vacuum leak. But rather something to do with the fuel delivery system. You did say as soon as you switch to Gas, it smooth's out". Did that mean "Petrol" or "LPG"?
??? A vacuum leak, AND one system doesn't afford as wide a range of TRIM compensation to sustain acceptable idle?? Maybe.
Where did all the smart guys go?
A vacuum leak can be found quickly by monitoring live data short term fuel trim while spraying a combustible all around possible leak points. I prefer using an UNLIT propane torch - its much less damaging to rubber components than liquid sprays. But when you hit a vacuum leak point - the short term fuel trim for that bank will go NUTS. You can verify expected results by spraying it into the cold air intake. If no reaction - the O2 sensor would not be reporting the additional richness. (I like using a Torque Pro screen with both fuel trims - AND upstream O2 sensors. - Tests both at the same time.)
I assume_??? we are testing using Petrol. I read up on your "Prins" LPG system and it is fascinating they can seamlessly switch between Petrol/LPG still using the PCM closed system. Be that the case, I can't think of any reason why the same test would not be applicable with either. If the lean condition exists on one and not the other - I would have to go start studying up some more, but that would make me think it was not a vacuum leak. But rather something to do with the fuel delivery system. You did say as soon as you switch to Gas, it smooth's out". Did that mean "Petrol" or "LPG"?
??? A vacuum leak, AND one system doesn't afford as wide a range of TRIM compensation to sustain acceptable idle?? Maybe.
Where did all the smart guys go?
04-13-2017, 11:32 AM
#29
You did say as soon as you switch to Gas, it smooth's out". Did that mean "Petrol" or "LPG"?
Petrol....we dont call it Gas here...gas=LPG...it reminds me when i went to France and needed look close and sniff fuel gun to be sure its the right one...
Smoots out on LPG however this morning on the way to work i could feel when it switched and even on LPG it was slight shake...
Petrol....we dont call it Gas here...gas=LPG...it reminds me when i went to France and needed look close and sniff fuel gun to be sure its the right one
...Smoots out on LPG however this morning on the way to work i could feel when it switched and even on LPG it was slight shake...
Last edited by LudoUK; 04-13-2017 at 11:35 AM.
04-13-2017, 11:39 AM
#30
A vacuum leak, AND one system doesn't afford as wide a range of TRIM compensation to sustain acceptable idle?? Maybe.'
Yea its what i believe now...its getting worst and even lpg is over its range now....
First thing in the morning i will perform smoke test and O2sensor test...
Yea its what i believe now...its getting worst and even lpg is over its range now....
First thing in the morning i will perform smoke test and O2sensor test...