dr_bowtie

I just did a short block rebuild on a 5.4 3V that had busted a drivers side guide and tensioner. Heads were fine and got a minor freshen.

needless to say the truck fired up and ran great but over the coarse of a week it started doing goofy stuff. Cold start it would pop a Crank/Cam Correlation code and had a low idle.

when i pulled the front cover off the Drivers side broke the tensioner and the chain jumped 4 teeth.

Passenger side chained jumped 3 teeth and the tensioner was fine. even though the guides as chain were fine I still opted for another complete kit with chains, gear, guides and tensioners....

I had the thing apart, changed and installed in 6 hours and I found nothing wrong with the cams, phasers or valve train. nothing binding or what not.

as soon as I hit the key the engine sprang to life and ran great. put 10 miles on the test drive and all was fine.

Boss took the truck home for the night and he said pulling in to the driveway it started missing and died. fired right back up but lacked power.

Drove it into work and it ran like it did when the chain jumped.

fired it up this afternoon and it sounds bad but has not popped a light. but it sounds like one of the chains jumped again. it's jumped twice now and I'm at a loss as to what would make it jump with all new stuff...

I'm at the point now I'm considering pulling the cams looking for something to bind/lock the cam temporarily to make the chain jump.... it checked fine on the rebuild...

anyone got any clues where to look?

effects4

Here's a theory....

the oil galleys are so gummed up they aren't allowing adequate oil to pressurize the guide tensioners. They lose psi and compress, allowing the chains to slap around and jump?

bcarpenter0318

I believe my 04 f150 fx4 is doing something kind of similar and I still havent figured it out. Truck started to sound pretty bad like a knock pass. side front. Anyway, I decide to just go ahead and replace all the timing components including chain, tensioners, cam phasers, guides, and even put a new oil pump. The old chain had grinded metal off of the inside of my front timing cover. Well i get everything installed and torqued up and all that, and wanted to turn the motor by hand to check before putting it back together. On the passenger side bank only, when I rotate the crank the chain is good and tight most of the full spin, but when I get to the Tdc spot and also the Bdc position, the chain gets really loose, scary loose. The driver side is great with no problems. Im wondering if the problem would go away once oil pressure is built up since the tensioner could be weak in those positions w/out oil pressure. But then again the other side dont. So then I think something to do with the cam and lash adjusters just in those positions in the rotation. Like they are sticking on certain valves putting just enough pressure on cam causing the tensioner to weaken and giving the chain slack. Still researching the answers to this. I dont know maybe our problems could be related because i know my chain gets loose enough that if it was running it would definitely jump some teeth.

vintageman

Some slack during rotation by hand is normal I think, alot is not, prior to the first start up, hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank the engine for about 8-10 seconds, do this 3 or 4 times so that it builds oil pressure but doesnt start. Holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking prevents the engine from starting. Do this to ensure that the tensioners have built up pressure and holding the guides tight so the chain will not jump. Ensure that you are running a good motorcraft oil filter with the drainback valve to help with cold startups. If you are still getting these issues, hook up a real oil pressure gauge as the one on the dash is not reliable for true pressure readings. If there were broken guides then the oil pan needs to be dropped and the pickup screen needs to be checked to make sure that there is nothing stopping it up.

Joseph Hargrave

So I installed new phasers chain tensioners guided and mellings oil pump. The rest was Ford dealership parts. I have timed this thing 3 times and had a shop do it once. Every time cranking before starting to allow oil pressure to build up. Every time both cams jump teeth. Runs fine until warmed up then starts missing at idle. I see this thread has similar issues wondering if anybody came up with any conclusions. And if there is a way to clean out oil galleys.

A little background to the truck bought it none running with drivers side guide broke and lower bolt broke to guide. Fixed all that dropped oil pan cleaned out pickup tube. Changed oil. Beyond frustrated at this point. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Jojodapyro

Did you buy Ford Phasers?

Joseph Hargrave

Yes all parts are from a ford dealership except the oil pump and that's from mellings.

dukedkt442

How are you sure the chains are jumping teeth? The timing marks will only align with the links on the chains every 68 revolutions or so, so if you pop the front cover or valve covers off, of course the chain links won't be on their phaser marks.

Did you replace the plugs and boots/springs/coils? New VCT solenoids?

Joseph Hargrave

I have replaced the boots. Last owner replaced the spark plugs. I could do them again. However it only throws the codes for the camshafts being over restarted. If I keep running it it throws random misfires. I just always assumened that it was from the timing being off for the random misfires. Yes I replaced the VCT selinoids as well when I replaced the timing components.

F150Torqued

^^^^^^ Same question here. What makes you believe it is "JUMPING TIME"? @dukedkt442 is correct - you have a one in '61' chance when you shut it down that the timing marks will be aligned. Then it could be on the opposite stroke (exhaust instead of intake). For perfect alignment it takes 122 revolutions. It _IS_ however bothersome that you said one side was one tooth off and the other two teeth. That would be impossible given checking procedure was the same. ONLY reliable way you can 'VERIFY' chain timing is to - TOTALLY IGNORE COLORED CHAIN LINKS, and COUNT LINKS from the crankshaft DOT (not counting the link straddling the crank dot) - there are 30 links BOTH DIRECTIONS up to - but NOT spanning the Phaser timing mark. this is same on both banks - except the 30th link will be next to "L" on one side and "R" on the other side. Makes no difference which side "R" / "L" happens to be on for this test.

But all in all, With new chains (free from wear stretch), it is unlikely one will will jump teeth on either the phaser gear OR the crank gear if there is ANY guide there at all. Makes no difference if tensioner is working or not.

The "Over Retarded" code is significant. It occurs when the PCM attempts to "REMOVE" previously established cam retard to move cams back to BASE TIMING (Zero Retard) - or if cams 'drag' toward retarded position due to cam drag. The spec is if a cam is more than 5º off from commanded position for more than 5 seconds ---- Over Retarded or Over Advanced is triggered (as appropriate). Those codes are 'sticky'. ie: Once it occurs, the code is set and it takes two drive cycles without a repeat occurrence before PCM will reset the code -- or you have to clear it. But the important thing here is WHY is the phaser unable to move the cam to base position after it has been retarded - OR hold it there as it should when PCM is NOT requesting retard. If VCT solenoids are closed (routing 100% oil flow/pressure into advance chambers), the PHASERs should push cams to ZERO retard. Under these conditions, you might try driving the truck with VCT solenoids unplugged for a couple of drive cycles. They should StAY closed allowing NO oil to flow to retard chambers and no retard to occur. -- Unless the base position locking pin is failing to Lock Phasers down at Zero Retard -AND/OR oil pressure at phasers is insufficient to push phasers to full advance position (zero retard).

I'll keep My fingers are crossed.