Hi guys,
First post but I’ve been around taking advantage of the great info on here for about a year now. This place has been hugely helpful and I’ve learned a ton. Unfortunately, my truck has now dealt me something that I don’t have the tools or knowledge to fix myself. I’ve taken it to a mechanic and I would be hugely grateful for some feedback on what I’m hearing.

The short version:
It’s a ’04 5.4l with a hundred thousand miles on it. Throwing misfire and o2 mix codes and the infamous P0012. The mechanic noted sludge on the dipstick and oil pressure at 25-30 PSI during the test-drive. He suggests a new engine – that replacing the timing components may fix the problem for now but the muck and oil pressure indicate a more severe problem.

From reading on here I keep coming back to S_Vares’ sticky at https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...-sound-141266/. It warns against taking the presence of sludge and timing issues as meaning a new engine is needed. That post is about ticking, and this is a bit different – but is there anything that can be done to determine whether the timing work would be likely to fix the problem itself? Or should I just give up and pay the $7200 for a replacement engine?

Detail:
I’ve had it for two years. Running 5w20 synthetic. It’s had the ticking noise since I bought it. About a week ago it started running a little rough at idle, then a couple days ago, suddenly CEL, shuddering and stalling at idle. Had to keep the RPMs high just to get it to the mechanic.

Error codes:
P0012: “A” camshaft position – timing over retarded
P2196: o2 sensor signal biased/stuck rich (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
P0172: Bank 1 - rich
P0174: Bank 2 - lean
P0300: Random misfire detected
P0301: Cylinder 1 misfire
P0302: Cylinder 2 misfire
P0303: Cylinder 3 misfire
P0304: Cylinder 4 misfire
P0316: Engine misfire in first 1000 revolutions

Potentially related background:
It developed a misfire while on a trip back in July. Limped the two hours home and after some diagnostics replaced an ignition coil on cylinder 4. Read later that I ran a real risk of bagging the catalytic converter by driving it with the misfire. It ran fine afterword so I had assumed it was fine.

Any advice would be very much appreciated - thank you.

 

25psi at hot idle? IMO, that's still a decent pressure number to me if so.

Basing engine replacement by sludge on a dipstick seems a bit far to me. A lot of times, you'll get a residue from not letting the engine run long enough (common under the oil fill cap). Without seeing inside, it's a hard call to make. Mine had a cam follower seize up due to low pressure at about 106K and was fixed with no issues 3 years later.

Not knowing your mechanic and not trying to take a shot at him, but it seems more and more are suggesting new engines when it comes to the 3V instead of fixing one.

 

Ugh. The ever-present and all-to-common mechanic "you need a new engine" copout. No, you probably do not need a new engine. Let's get some pictures of that dipstick.

I agree, it's a total BS call to look at a dipstick and say "yup, you've got sludge." You might have varnish, but I don't know about sludge. If you want to see in there, like REALLY see in there, take a day and get your valve covers off. And if you want to go a step further, take off the oil pain, too.

Bare-minimum Recommendation: buy a half gallon of Kreen and follow the instructions until it's gone. Change your oil more frequently while you're using it because it does its job well and you will need to drain the crap it dissolves.

 

Wondering if he has ever did a plug change ? Boots and springs ? Lot of mis fire DTC's

 

Sounds like he's just trying to rip you off do a tuneup and get back to us in have a 2008 e350 that just hit 600k and I have only changed one sensor since I have bought it 6 years ago with only 120k on it and it still drives 450 miles a day

 

I'm on the side of trying to clean out the sludge...if you got it just 2 years ago, the maintenance history is unknown, so the previous owner could have neglected changing the oil on any kind of schedule. I'd try several short intervals (KREEN or not) using an oil known for cleaning ability (Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, regular dino oil but cleans well). Then after several 2-3000 mile changes when your dipstick starts to look good, change back to your desired synthetic.

I like Mark's suggestion about the plugs; if they haven't been changed that could easily cause misfires.

Can't comment on the rest of the codes because I'm not familiar with the 5.4.

 

$7200 for engine replacement is also pretty high. Mine was replaced under warranty earlier this year at the dealership, and they charged $6500. And that's with them using a Ford engine.

 

All the misfire codes could be from bad plugs and COP's. If it were mine, I'd run a good flush through it, like mentioned, and do all the plugs and COP's. This will only be about 200 bucks for some cheaper COP's and plugs, but this may very well clear up that misfire mess. As far as the sludge, run a good cleaner through it with some short OCI's and see if it helps. You will need to do timing components as well. All in all, I think about 2 grand will have that engine purring again. At only 100k, you should not have to replace an engine unless it's trashed. You can run a compression test to verify this, but I'm guessing it should be good to go.

 

Hey all, thank you for the comments and advice.

Some additional info: Plugs and COPs were done about 25k ago, and the misfire codes all popped up at the same time as the P0012. As well, the cylinders throwing misfire codes are all on bank 1. Does this mean that it is more likely that the misfires are due to a timing issue?