Rough idle/chatter/shake 5.4L
01-07-2015, 12:40 PM
#81
Senior Member
I have a 2010 fx4 screw with the 5.4 how would I find out if the engine has the new or old solenoid? Last night when we was out it started having a rough idle that smoothed out once I gave it gas. It had been running for at least a hour so everything was warm. Truck has 72000 miles now so its out of warranty. If its just the solenoids it looks like I can replace them myself, not really trusting of my local dealership.
09-05-2015, 10:04 PM
#82
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just joined...i figured after hours of reading every forum known to man and bugging the little google text box to death it would be selfish to gain more knowledge about 5.4 vct than i ever cared to know without contributing...my symptoms are as follows...(07 f150, 156k miles) truck ran great, 13-14 mpg loaded with tool boxes..ran great from point a to b anyway..when i got it up to temp for 20-30 minutes and then did low rpm maneuvers...i.e. backing a trailer (empty), squeezing into a tight spot etc...(worse in reverse) it would run horrible..shake, knock, etc...if i got into the pedal a little it calmed down...usually ran fine at hot idle (in park)..it threw P0340 and P0345..camshaft position sensors...easy fix...i thought..no difference...changed oil, cleaned VCT solenoids...no difference...from what i have learned from all the mechanics i know, and the internet...my issue was as follows..oil starvation has likely occurred at some point from sludge or carbon..cam phasers are bad...most likely chain tensioner is bad (also operates on oil pressure) which allows the timing chain to have some slop...when the chain has slack it alows the cam to move until something stops it..which causes it to chew into the nice aluminum groove that it rides in..i unplugged the vct solenoids and it cured the symptom minus some mileage and acceleration...that's not a long term fix though...the engine just ran worse as a whole within a few days..the phaser is the part that was noticeable...the rest is just cool stuff that goes along with it..here's the conundrum...phasers and timing kit are around $900..labor is probably $1000..if that fixes it..great...but it's a gamble...a $1900 gamble...if they open it up and the heads need to come off and cams are bad...you've paid for a new engine...and whether or not you back out at that point...you're still $1900 in...if they notice no other issues and button it up...and sludge or debris hiding elsewhere makes its way to the phasers later...you start over..i have read and talked til i'm blue in the face and best i can tell there is no accurate way to assess the damage until you're at least $1000-$1500 in...mine is getting a jasper in a week or 2...they open up the oil passages in theirs, as well as put a high volume pump in to combat this issue...labor will be around $1000...long block is $4100...i just can't see gambling 2-3k, likely having to swap engines anyway...5k is bad enough...i don't need a couple more tacked on for guessing and checking...added note...previous owner must have let the oil changes go long...i've always run synthetic and lucas...6 months ago i had a clogged pickup tube which contributed to my decision to swap....another added note...on these trucks the oil pressure gauge isn't really a gauge...it's an electrical switch...when it senses 8lbs it goes between half and 3/4...only drops when it's less than 8 (takes 30 to operate phasers)... when i swap i will be putting an actual pressure gauge on it, and changing every 3,000 even with synthetic...these things are very very sensitive to oil...also...use a motorcraft filter...lots of issues with others...i always used wix, and eventually k&n...i'll ask jasper about k&n...they may be ok...but alot of people have these problems as a result of aftermarket filters and getting a couple thousand miles between changes....lesson learned here!
06-15-2016, 04:22 PM
#83
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Hello I just noticed I am having the same issue. Only mine has not thrown a code and it has 193k miles on it. It is an 09 model and it doesn't knock it just shakes the truck I first only noticed it when giving it gas going down the road it almost felt like I was driving on a rough spot. Then today's noticed it while I was sitting in the driveway. Ford wants to charge me 98 bucks to hook it up and tell me what it is I have no experience with these new trucks so I'm very worried especially since there is no warranty and the people that had it last didn't take care of it. Any help would be much appreciated.
06-16-2016, 09:57 AM
#84
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Hello I just noticed I am having the same issue. Only mine has not thrown a code and it has 193k miles on it. It is an 09 model and it doesn't knock it just shakes the truck I first only noticed it when giving it gas going down the road it almost felt like I was driving on a rough spot. Then today's noticed it while I was sitting in the driveway. Ford wants to charge me 98 bucks to hook it up and tell me what it is I have no experience with these new trucks so I'm very worried especially since there is no warranty and the people that had it last didn't take care of it. Any help would be much appreciated.
06-16-2016, 10:05 AM
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Tftrainman, unfortunately the only way I was able to get it to throw codes was by letting it shake itself to pieces. I believe I saw the codes right after I took the video I posted early on in this forum. If it wasn't taken care of prior to your ownership, it could very likely have some sludge building do to infrequent oil changes (even if you are changing it regularly now). This could indicate teh VCT's. My first thought is sort of a double edged sword. If you can let it shake for a bit and see if any codes pop up, that could be helpful. Mine was no more than five minutes (I wouldn't let it shake forever). By doing this, you obviously risk potentially damaging something further though. Also, I found that all Ford dealerships are not created equal. The first one I took it into was no help and they basically acted like they hadn't ever heard of the problem I was describing. Do you have access to more than one dealer where you live?
06-16-2016, 12:46 PM
#86
Tftrainman, unfortunately the only way I was able to get it to throw codes was by letting it shake itself to pieces. I believe I saw the codes right after I took the video I posted early on in this forum. If it wasn't taken care of prior to your ownership, it could very likely have some sludge building do to infrequent oil changes (even if you are changing it regularly now). This could indicate teh VCT's. My first thought is sort of a double edged sword. If you can let it shake for a bit and see if any codes pop up, that could be helpful. Mine was no more than five minutes (I wouldn't let it shake forever). By doing this, you obviously risk potentially damaging something further though. Also, I found that all Ford dealerships are not created equal. The first one I took it into was no help and they basically acted like they hadn't ever heard of the problem I was describing. Do you have access to more than one dealer where you live?
My 5.4 was doing this for quite sometime. It hasn't done it since april 2nd of this year. I started doing oil changes with Royal Purple instead of Motorcraft. It seems I have had good luck so far... However I'm not saying to do this because I'm not even sure it has solved my issue. So far it has seemed to isolate the problem for now? However I'm scared of it coming back..
I have also noticed while the problem did happen. I could get it to go away by slightly accelerating (While in park). And the problem would go away.. Was this the same way with your truck?
06-16-2016, 01:22 PM
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My 5.4 was doing this for quite sometime. It hasn't done it since april 2nd of this year. I started doing oil changes with Royal Purple instead of Motorcraft. It seems I have had good luck so far... However I'm not saying to do this because I'm not even sure it has solved my issue. So far it has seemed to isolate the problem for now? However I'm scared of it coming back..
I have also noticed while the problem did happen. I could get it to go away by slightly accelerating (While in park). And the problem would go away.. Was this the same way with your truck?
I have also noticed while the problem did happen. I could get it to go away by slightly accelerating (While in park). And the problem would go away.. Was this the same way with your truck?
06-17-2016, 10:59 AM
#88
Member
Thread Starter
My 5.4 was doing this for quite sometime. It hasn't done it since april 2nd of this year. I started doing oil changes with Royal Purple instead of Motorcraft. It seems I have had good luck so far... However I'm not saying to do this because I'm not even sure it has solved my issue. So far it has seemed to isolate the problem for now? However I'm scared of it coming back..
I have also noticed while the problem did happen. I could get it to go away by slightly accelerating (While in park). And the problem would go away.. Was this the same way with your truck?
I have also noticed while the problem did happen. I could get it to go away by slightly accelerating (While in park). And the problem would go away.. Was this the same way with your truck?
Sounds like it's worth a shot to try some Royal Purple. At most it can't hurt. Good luck guys!
05-03-2017, 10:54 PM
#89
Okay everyone the answer to it all. It is a massive vacuum leak. The hose pops off from behind the intake manifold. Looking from the front of the truck it is to the left and down about a hand length. This tube protrudes from the back of the block really towards the cab. If you reach down between the fuel rail and heat shield you should find a female piece with two hoses comin in.
What you need: a mirror on a stick, a ~3/8 hose, zip ties, and a piece of pipe the size of a small power steering tube.
How to fix it: locate the tube with the mirror and a flash light, pry the fuel rail just a little so you can get some extra space, attach the hose to the "L shaped" (so ou can get a pry on it) tube and wedge it onto the protruding tube (will take atleast twenty minutes), attach the female acceptor piece to the metal tube with some zip ties and it's fixed.
What you need: a mirror on a stick, a ~3/8 hose, zip ties, and a piece of pipe the size of a small power steering tube.
How to fix it: locate the tube with the mirror and a flash light, pry the fuel rail just a little so you can get some extra space, attach the hose to the "L shaped" (so ou can get a pry on it) tube and wedge it onto the protruding tube (will take atleast twenty minutes), attach the female acceptor piece to the metal tube with some zip ties and it's fixed.
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09-06-2019, 03:23 PM
#90
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F150 triton 5.4 3 valve bad idle
Last summer while sitting in traffic, waiting on the on ramp to the freeway, my truck started to idle really rough. The entire truck began to shake and the engine sounded like it was on the verge of dying. I gave it a little gas, but couldn't give it much because of all the cars in front of me. After putting the truck in park momentarily I was able to rev the engine and it calmed back down. This happened every couple of weeks always in the same situation, on ramp to the freeway.
I did plenty of searching online and found lots of talk about this sort of issue, but nothing on a vehicle as new as mine. I couldn't have had more than 38k miles on it. Everyone was mentioning cam phasers being the issue. There was a recall on my door handles so I scheduled an appointment for it to be looked at. They fixed my recall, but what do you know, they couldn't find a thing wrong with my truck. In fact, they couldn't even duplicate the issue, but they said I had a dirty sensor (wish I remembered which one, it didn't show up on my ticket) and that my PCM was pretty out dated. I had them flash it.
The truck seemed to run better. I took it up the on ramp under similar conditions and there was no rough idle, but eventually the signs came back. This time, not on the on ramp, but while idling through a parking lot (obviously low RPMs). The problem showed itself more consistently now. After doing more reading I found people mentioning VCT sensors and low oil pressure. I had never paid much attention to the oil pressure when this was happening, just the RPMs, which seemed to remain at a reasonable level. During one event I pulled into a parking stall, shifted into park and left it running. As I watched the gauges, nothing seemed out of the ordinary and then, the check engine light came on. This had never happen before and I'd never had any codes. Now as excited as can be that I had some proof of the issue I checked the codes.
P0012
P0022
P0316
P0341
P0346
(all codes seemed at least generally related to timing)
I scheduled an appointment for the following Friday (yesterday, Feb 1st 2013). Upon taking the truck in I was planning on taking one of their Foreman's on a ride to see if I could duplicate the problem for him. To my luck, as I pulled the truck into the garage the rough idle came back. I quickly grabbed a 'witness' (service manager). After he observed for a moment he brought out a technician who seemed to know just what was going on. He mentioned this could be caused by various things:
VCT sensor
Cam Phasers
Oil
Oil Filter
Low oil pressure
Now, especially while under warranty I always use the recommended filter and oil. Motorcraft filter and Motorcraft oil (5w-20). Those are things that I can easily control.
I checked the truck in and they said they would get back to me. Later that day I received a call from the dealer. They said they had some mediocre news for me. My engine would/could not keep time. As far as they could tell everything was under warranty to this point. In other words, they see the correct oil filter and oil (if they can test that) and they don't see any abuse at this point. Ford has offered me a rental car for the time being so I have some wheels to get to work and classes. The service manager told me that they have to take the engine apart to see what has actually failed. Then, they will have to send pictures to Ford in order to see if the will cover the repair. If they find evidence of infrequent oil changing, wrong oil, etc, then I might have other problems.
I was told this could be an involved part replacement or an entire engine. I'm all for a new engine if it's covered under warranty, but what scares me is what they might find once they open things up. I have always changed my oil every 5k miles and I always use the recommended Motorcraft filter and oil, but that doesn't mean the first owner of the truck did. I read on a different forum about someone with similar issues and Ford required them to show proof (receipts) of oil changes. I asked the service manager about this and he said sometimes Ford asks and sometimes they don't. Well, I had never even thought about keeping my oil change receipts. I buy the oil from Autozone, change the oil and the receipt goes in the garbage with the dirty paper towels. At this point Ford has not asked for receipts, but I wanted to be prepared in case they did. Unfortunately there was no chance I had any of those receipts. However, back years ago my father had signed up for an Autozone's rewards card. It doesn't cost anything, but you get points for your purchases. He'd given myself and my brother each one of the cards. Even after moving out I always referenced the rewards account when purchasing things at Autozone. I thought for sure that the rewards card program should track purchases. Turns out they do! I was able to log into their website with the card number and retrieve transaction history for the last 24 months. I printed off three transactions and have since turned them into the dealer. Unfortunately the service manager that I worked with was not in today so I'm not positive what he will think. He did say that if Ford wants proof then he didn't care if it was just a Walmart receipt as long as it showed 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil'. The printouts show 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil', but the times I purchased the 5 quart jugs, those parts are unrecognizable by name. I'm hoping this will not be an issue. This was all preemptive work anyway, but hopefully it will be enough to show I've done regular maintenance.
Now, I wait to hear back from the dealer and Ford. I know there are older threads related to this, but I didn't see anything on a vehicle so new and with so few miles (currently 46,700). I'll update this as I get more information. For anyone interested in seeing the iphone recording of the issue, please see this youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgkTSvg_atU. This may help you determine if you are having the same problem.
Thanks
I did plenty of searching online and found lots of talk about this sort of issue, but nothing on a vehicle as new as mine. I couldn't have had more than 38k miles on it. Everyone was mentioning cam phasers being the issue. There was a recall on my door handles so I scheduled an appointment for it to be looked at. They fixed my recall, but what do you know, they couldn't find a thing wrong with my truck. In fact, they couldn't even duplicate the issue, but they said I had a dirty sensor (wish I remembered which one, it didn't show up on my ticket) and that my PCM was pretty out dated. I had them flash it.
The truck seemed to run better. I took it up the on ramp under similar conditions and there was no rough idle, but eventually the signs came back. This time, not on the on ramp, but while idling through a parking lot (obviously low RPMs). The problem showed itself more consistently now. After doing more reading I found people mentioning VCT sensors and low oil pressure. I had never paid much attention to the oil pressure when this was happening, just the RPMs, which seemed to remain at a reasonable level. During one event I pulled into a parking stall, shifted into park and left it running. As I watched the gauges, nothing seemed out of the ordinary and then, the check engine light came on. This had never happen before and I'd never had any codes. Now as excited as can be that I had some proof of the issue I checked the codes.
P0012
P0022
P0316
P0341
P0346
(all codes seemed at least generally related to timing)
I scheduled an appointment for the following Friday (yesterday, Feb 1st 2013). Upon taking the truck in I was planning on taking one of their Foreman's on a ride to see if I could duplicate the problem for him. To my luck, as I pulled the truck into the garage the rough idle came back. I quickly grabbed a 'witness' (service manager). After he observed for a moment he brought out a technician who seemed to know just what was going on. He mentioned this could be caused by various things:
VCT sensor
Cam Phasers
Oil
Oil Filter
Low oil pressure
Now, especially while under warranty I always use the recommended filter and oil. Motorcraft filter and Motorcraft oil (5w-20). Those are things that I can easily control.
I checked the truck in and they said they would get back to me. Later that day I received a call from the dealer. They said they had some mediocre news for me. My engine would/could not keep time. As far as they could tell everything was under warranty to this point. In other words, they see the correct oil filter and oil (if they can test that) and they don't see any abuse at this point. Ford has offered me a rental car for the time being so I have some wheels to get to work and classes. The service manager told me that they have to take the engine apart to see what has actually failed. Then, they will have to send pictures to Ford in order to see if the will cover the repair. If they find evidence of infrequent oil changing, wrong oil, etc, then I might have other problems.
I was told this could be an involved part replacement or an entire engine. I'm all for a new engine if it's covered under warranty, but what scares me is what they might find once they open things up. I have always changed my oil every 5k miles and I always use the recommended Motorcraft filter and oil, but that doesn't mean the first owner of the truck did. I read on a different forum about someone with similar issues and Ford required them to show proof (receipts) of oil changes. I asked the service manager about this and he said sometimes Ford asks and sometimes they don't. Well, I had never even thought about keeping my oil change receipts. I buy the oil from Autozone, change the oil and the receipt goes in the garbage with the dirty paper towels. At this point Ford has not asked for receipts, but I wanted to be prepared in case they did. Unfortunately there was no chance I had any of those receipts. However, back years ago my father had signed up for an Autozone's rewards card. It doesn't cost anything, but you get points for your purchases. He'd given myself and my brother each one of the cards. Even after moving out I always referenced the rewards account when purchasing things at Autozone. I thought for sure that the rewards card program should track purchases. Turns out they do! I was able to log into their website with the card number and retrieve transaction history for the last 24 months. I printed off three transactions and have since turned them into the dealer. Unfortunately the service manager that I worked with was not in today so I'm not positive what he will think. He did say that if Ford wants proof then he didn't care if it was just a Walmart receipt as long as it showed 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil'. The printouts show 'Motorcraft filter' and 'Motorcraft oil', but the times I purchased the 5 quart jugs, those parts are unrecognizable by name. I'm hoping this will not be an issue. This was all preemptive work anyway, but hopefully it will be enough to show I've done regular maintenance.
Now, I wait to hear back from the dealer and Ford. I know there are older threads related to this, but I didn't see anything on a vehicle so new and with so few miles (currently 46,700). I'll update this as I get more information. For anyone interested in seeing the iphone recording of the issue, please see this youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgkTSvg_atU. This may help you determine if you are having the same problem.
Thanks