Ethanol VS Gas MPG
05-25-2011, 01:20 PM
#21
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Interesting. I posted some of the same reservations about ETOH on a different thread that many of you here posted. I was promptly taken to task for being an "Ivory Tower dwelling, elitist liberal, who doesn't know anything about the 'real world'."
Guess that's what I get for using big words.
Doesn't matter that I grew up poor, or how often my knuckles were bloody, or how many sacrifices I had to make to earn my education.
If someone disagrees with you, it's much easier to ignore their arguments, and ignore their evidence. Just paint them as something you hate and try to get others to agree with you.
Guess that's what I get for using big words.
Doesn't matter that I grew up poor, or how often my knuckles were bloody, or how many sacrifices I had to make to earn my education.
If someone disagrees with you, it's much easier to ignore their arguments, and ignore their evidence. Just paint them as something you hate and try to get others to agree with you.
05-25-2011, 02:25 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by 2010FX4F150GILROY
The test is finished I edited to the bottom of the first page of this thread please read there thanks...........
05-25-2011, 02:34 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Its not really a fixed dollar or cents difference it is a percentage less.. In my test the percentage comes in around 20% less then its cost effective.... At 9.99 per gallon ethanol has to be about 7.99 per gallon or 2.00 less, 20%.... At 20% it makes sense to use Ethanol, if there is a station close by.... 4.00 per gallon for regular unleaded I would need ethanol to be 3.20 per gallon to beak even.... Then if ethanol is less, then by all means it is cheaper...
05-25-2011, 02:58 PM
#25
Senior Member
Some light reading that supports exactly what I stated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_vs._fuel
http://zfacts.com/p/63.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
Co-worker of mine's parents are also corn farmers. They are making a ton more money now selling fuel corn at increased sales prices over food corn and using the tax breaks (subsidies) to further pad profits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_vs._fuel
http://zfacts.com/p/63.html
http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/
Co-worker of mine's parents are also corn farmers. They are making a ton more money now selling fuel corn at increased sales prices over food corn and using the tax breaks (subsidies) to further pad profits.
05-25-2011, 02:59 PM
#26
Wow, do I wish we actually had a choice here NOT to buy E85. In Washington state, ALL of our gas --- everywhere, all the time -- is E85. When we did have a choice a few years ago, I'd get 31 to 32 mpg in our car and 26 with E85.
as to the subsidies........you also have to count the increased cost of the food at the grocery store when foods are converted to fuel. I've read articles that say that gallon of E85 fuel -- in real costs -- is worth 4 to 5 times in additional costs:
1. Government printing money and in debt to support the subsidies (plus the interest on the debt).
2. Every car in the US getting worse MPG on E85.
3. Increased cost at the grocery store.
4. The cost of all the lobbyists in D.C. to keep this ridiculous farce foisted on the American public.
5. PRICELESS!
as to the subsidies........you also have to count the increased cost of the food at the grocery store when foods are converted to fuel. I've read articles that say that gallon of E85 fuel -- in real costs -- is worth 4 to 5 times in additional costs:
1. Government printing money and in debt to support the subsidies (plus the interest on the debt).
2. Every car in the US getting worse MPG on E85.
3. Increased cost at the grocery store.
4. The cost of all the lobbyists in D.C. to keep this ridiculous farce foisted on the American public.
5. PRICELESS!
Really? How do the non-e85 vehicles deal with the E85? I assume you meant that all of your gas has some ethanol mixed in, but I doubt it's all E85 (which is 85% ethanol)
05-25-2011, 03:57 PM
#27
Your first site is a wiki and not accurate. The corn used to make ethanol is actually turned into a higher quality feed after its been processed than it was without being processed, your second site says it costs .38cents more a gallon to produce than gas, not 10$, haha! It also says the ethanol blenders and and plant makers received the subsidies. Corn prices have went up yes, but its not just because of ethanol, same with food prices, there are worldwide disasters in austrailia, europe, south america, russia and even the united states that affect food prices. Anyone who thinks that ethanol is the major factor affecting food prices is a complete moron as it in reality has very little if any effect on food prices.
At any-rate, according to our own Government Accountability Office, ethanol use increases the use of fossils fuels. Read about it.
That said, when a farmer stops growing wheat or soy in order to grow more profitable corn, what do you suppose happens to the price of wheat and soy according to the law of supply and demand?
05-25-2011, 04:35 PM
#28
At any-rate, according to our own Government Accountability Office, ethanol use increases the use of fossils fuels. Read about it.
Has nothing to do with the production of ethanol and/or any effects it produces (negative or positve).
To the thread subject: Nice to see some real world comparisons. And good luck hoping for your thread to not be hijacked by the Ethanol/Gas debate...
Wrong link?
05-25-2011, 04:50 PM
#29
Senior Member
Sultan, I understand that you make you living somehow in the ethanol industry.
At any-rate, according to our own Government Accountability Office, ethanol use increases the use of fossils fuels. Read about it.
That said, when a farmer stops growing wheat or soy in order to grow more profitable corn, what do you suppose happens to the price of wheat and soy according to the law of supply and demand?
At any-rate, according to our own Government Accountability Office, ethanol use increases the use of fossils fuels. Read about it.
That said, when a farmer stops growing wheat or soy in order to grow more profitable corn, what do you suppose happens to the price of wheat and soy according to the law of supply and demand?
But anyway the purpose of this thread was to see at what pump price ethanol becomes a better choice than regular gas because whether they spend your tax money on ethanol or paying down the nation debt or buying 23,000$ hammers it doesnt really matter, you are still paying that tax so factoring it into your ethanol MPG cost makes no sense. Its all about cost to the consumer at the pump. Seems to be about 80 cents or so for most people. Ive read that a 20-25 percent blend actually gives better MPG than 10 or 85 percent but due to the lack of stations in my area I have not yet got to experiment with it to see what that percent blend gives me.
