Twin turbo 5.0 towing
07-16-2019, 08:33 AM
#1
Twin turbo 5.0 towing
Hey guys something I have been thinking about, has anyone put a twin turbo after market kit or supercharger on a 5.0 and towed with it? I've been thinking about this for awhile now and the 5.0 tt should become a towing beast if other driveline components can take the added power and torque other question is, with a twin turbo or supercharger, can it be ran on 87 octane? Or will it have to be 91/ 93 only?
07-16-2019, 09:37 AM
#2
If I had a 5 and $8K to spare a Whipple would be my choice. Turbos would be too complicated and requires a lot of fabrication where the Whipple drops in place. It does need 91/93 octane though, otherwise it could damage the engine from detonation an pinging. It would then be equal to an Ecoboost at elevation when towing.
07-17-2019, 08:27 AM
#6
It would never work with any of the kits as they ship off the shelf, and there is one reason....heat. None of the aftermarket power adders, whether it be a Whipple, Roush, or On3, would pass the validation testing Ford (or any manufacturer) puts their stock engines through. These kits, and the power they add, take advantage of the fact that most people who purchase them are looking for short bursts of speed and not sustained power output. You cannot install a supercharger onto a stock F150, then expect it to tow a max weight trailer up a mountain without going into limp mode or worse.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
Last edited by BadCon; 07-17-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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07-12-2023, 11:34 AM
#7
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It would never work with any of the kits as they ship off the shelf, and there is one reason....heat. None of the aftermarket power adders, whether it be a Whipple, Roush, or On3, would pass the validation testing Ford (or any manufacturer) puts their stock engines through. These kits, and the power they add, take advantage of the fact that most people who purchase them are looking for short bursts of speed and not sustained power output. You cannot install a supercharger onto a stock F150, then expect it to tow a max weight trailer up a mountain without going into limp mode or worse.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
Thank you for that I am
currently looking to do a towing set up on my 5.0. I’m just to attached to get rid of it. What size turbo would you say is suitable for a build like this? Not looking to hot rod my truck by any means.
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07-12-2023, 04:59 PM
#8
You dont need that much power for towing. I bet 99% of people towing dont use much more than 300 hp except maybe to pass or something.
So unless you are driving like a lunatic while towing I don't think it would necessarily stress the truck out much more than stock.
So unless you are driving like a lunatic while towing I don't think it would necessarily stress the truck out much more than stock.
07-12-2023, 05:01 PM
#9
It would never work with any of the kits as they ship off the shelf, and there is one reason....heat. None of the aftermarket power adders, whether it be a Whipple, Roush, or On3, would pass the validation testing Ford (or any manufacturer) puts their stock engines through. These kits, and the power they add, take advantage of the fact that most people who purchase them are looking for short bursts of speed and not sustained power output. You cannot install a supercharger onto a stock F150, then expect it to tow a max weight trailer up a mountain without going into limp mode or worse.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
Additionally none of these kits run all that well on 91 octane, and will readily take advantage of the best fuel you can given them. You can tow with the stock Whipple and Roush kits, there is no question of that, but a would not use a turbo/supercharged 5.0 to tow heavy...there are better platforms for that.
On my truck with a Roush supercharger (not stock), I go from 185 to 205 degrees within 11 seconds during a 1/4th mile pass, and if I don't lift the temperatures keep on climbing...and would continue to climb until something pops. That is with a 170 degree thermostat and numerous cooling modifications.
And that is just engine temperatures, with no attention paid to transmission cooling or keeping the catalytic converters from melting down. Honestly cat temp is the biggest limiting factor and what would kill the engine before anything else. It takes an ungodly amount of fuel for COP (cat overtemp protection) to function properly at the approximate 550whp most of the blower kits add.
To give you an idea of how it all melts down. You start going up a grade with a heavy trailer, and give it gas to get around slower traffic. This in effect, is commanding more total horsepower then the truck was ever rated for. Coolant temperatures start climbing over 210 degrees, where the factory thermostat is fully open. This raises cylinder head temperatures which has a direct effect on the combustion process, making detonation or knock more likely. To combat this the engine retards timing, but this in turn increases overall heat making the truck run hotter and also increases exhaust gas temperatures which raises the catalyst temperature. The engine tries to richen the mixture when it engages COP to cool the cats, but because there is not enough fuel overhead available from the factory fuel system, the cat temperatures keep on climbing until they melt down, break apart, and clog the exhaust stream which would lead to engine damage very quickly.
You could build a Coyote to tow heavy with boost, but it would require more then bolting on a blower or turbos, you'd need to asses the full package.
If I was looking to make a twin turbo 5.0 tow machine, I would do the following.
#1. Limit boost to a reasonable level, say around 3-4psi. The goal is atmosphere normalization with a slight bump in power and torque, not winning races.
#2. Upgrade all cooling, including a high capacity radiator, oil cooler, transmission cooler, and diff cooler.
#3. Probably some form of water/meth injection to help control charge temps and reduce detonation, or at least 93 octane fuel.
#4. Either make sure the truck has enough fuel system for COP, or delete the cats entirely.
#5. A REALLY GOOD tune that was data logged while towing a trailer up a mountain.
With an adjustable wastegate, one could essentially run dual tunes for street and tow, so once you unhook the trailer the boost could be dialed back up. That said, at that point I'd much rather have a 3/4th ton truck with a diesel.
That said, I would probably upgrade to a CSF or mishimoto radiator if I was going that route anyways.
07-12-2023, 06:42 PM
#10
Hey guys something I have been thinking about, has anyone put a twin turbo after market kit or supercharger on a 5.0 and towed with it? I've been thinking about this for awhile now and the 5.0 tt should become a towing beast if other driveline components can take the added power and torque other question is, with a twin turbo or supercharger, can it be ran on 87 octane? Or will it have to be 91/ 93 only?